... time using infusion spirals

[Mr_Kaye]

Yes, getting WAY ahead of myself here, but that's the life of someone who learns, than plans, than takes action!

Got some rum working, nothing fancy, just unsulphured molasses and raw sugar deal. No dunder, as this is my first dance, but that's another topic for another area…

Anyway, when all the fun is done with the still, I will be aging with the intentions of making a spiced rum. From my research, it seems best to wood age first, then flavor.

I have used chips in the past, finding them to be exactly as most other things in the craft, the cheap stuff to start and learn with while quickly learning the quality is... well, meh at best.

I was recommended infusion spirals some time back for my wine. Never got around to giving them a try as I took off into the world of farm wines and have not touched a grape in quite some time.

I know, get to the point, LOL…

So, never used. Never made a rum. Dangerous combination.

I'm confident in getting the spirit done, no issues with that. Lots of info. As for researching spirals, the only rum specific information I found to be relatively consistent, is to use American oak, medium toast. Time seems to range from a few days to a few years. I understand to taste to find my personal point.

I guess I would just like a bit tighter time range.

At my smaller volume, I could see me just sipping my way through the entire batch as I found my point in time. Not a bad way to play the game, and a technique I have used several times in the past.

Any other hints, tips, tricks, or points of information in using them would be great. I'm sure there's plenty I have not thought of.

Keep in mind, I'm new to this product / style / process. I'm not new to the neighborhood, just this house. I know there are many ways to get the job done, some most likely the same as my wood chips experience… better. Just playing at the level my experience, and budget, find most appropriate for now.

[sadie33]

I was looking at the spirals a few years back, but decided to go with the cubes. I wasn't making very much at a time and thought the spirals might be to big.

The only tip I would give you is to remember they will SWELL. I read a few posts were people put them in a 5 gal glass carboy, they couldn't get them out. They had to wait till they dried out and shrunk, which held up their carboy for a while.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Mr_Kaye]

I was looking at the spirals a few years back, but decided to go with the cubes.

I thought about cubes myself. The deciding factor for me was I saw, quite a few times, that the spirals allow for more surface area contact. From my wine experience, that's what it's all about, hence the use of barrels over anything else.

A great article on it by a guy who did a blind taste test using cubes and spirals to age beer. Kind of interesting. I can see beer having a different effect from aging than spirits or wine, but still think it has some good info for sure!

https://brulosophy.com/2020/03/16/brewi ... t-results/

[SW_Shiner]

Ive used spirals, and still do for some things. Just keep in mind that they are designed to be one spiral to a 5 gal carboy of wine. i snap mine and use about a 1/4 of one roughly per gallon. Currently have some gin sitting on a well used piece.

[NZChris]

How long were you aging on chips before you decided that they were 'meh'?

[acfixer69]

When oak aging whiskey surface area over time is important. The char is also a choice to consider. Surface area is finished board. Coopers go to a lot of extra effort to limit the end grain that contacts the product. Why is that? Spirals are mostly end grain contact. IMO spirals = oak tea.

[Twisted Brick]

Take a look at oak sticks. They are inexpensive, easy to size, toast and char, and can be customized to your palate. There are plenty of threads here that outline the sources, making of and benefits of sticks over spirals.

[Saltbush Bill]

Spirals would be my last choice for oaking, as pointed out by AC they have heaps of end grain.
There are far better options like the Domino's marketed by still dragon or home made and toasted sticks.
As you've already found, chips are not great either for very similar reasons.
The cubes are also a better option imo.

[Yummyrum]

Spirals in beer and wine are sitting at a low AVB Circa 5-15% .
Distillate with an AVB up around 60% behaves totally different .

I also agree with the above comments that the excessive end grain of spirals would be the worst . Sure, you’ll end up with nice golden colour after about a week or two , but it will taste like wood , not Rum . To develop Rum flavour , you need it next to oak for about a year at least . That is why the Dominos or sticks are best as they have a much lower end grain to surface area ratio .

Barrels are the best .

[Mr_Kaye]

How long were you aging on chips before you decided that they were 'meh'?

I have done a few tests. Longest I went was around 6 weeks, honestly don't remember, but would put it at that point without feeling
way off. I have done as little as a week. By "meh" I mean just that. Got the job done but I'm sure could be better. A little "resting",
for lack of a better term (and avoiding saying "aging" as I know it is not aging at that point) in the jar also helped to my taste. Than
again, my taste is not the standard by any means.

------------------

Spirals are mostly end grain contact.

I can agree, not the best, have read that a lot. Also seen some say not an issue with rum. I don't know, so I will not defend that.
Only stating it as a point of information that may or may not be worth consideration of exception.

------------------------

Take a look at oak sticks. They are inexpensive, easy to size, toast and char, and can be customized to your palate. There are plenty of threads here that outline the sources, making of and benefits of sticks over spirals.

I second that, and have looked into them. Was on the fence about going that direction to be honest. Felt I'd better stick to learning one
skill at a time before I'm balls deep in toasting, charring and all the other fun stuff that makes me solidly putting them at my next level
for sure!

To develop Rum flavour , you need it next to oak for about a year at least . That is why the Dominos or sticks are best as they have a much lower end grain to surface area ratio .

Well, that shuts down the possibility of what I just said in my book. Point taken about spirals. May just have to return them to Amazon.

I did see a Japanese Sakura Taru Flavor barrel stick that looked like it could be fun. Hard to go after the $16 price tag though.

[NZChris]

How long were you aging on chips before you decided that they were 'meh'?

I have done a few tests. Longest I went was around 6 weeks, honestly don't remember, but would put it at that point without feeling
way off. I have done as little as a week. By "meh" I mean just that. Got the job done but I'm sure could be better. A little "resting",
for lack of a better term (and avoiding saying "aging" as I know it is not aging at that point) in the jar also helped to my taste. Than
again, my taste is not the standard by any means.

I suspected that might be the case. If you are going to drink it in weeks or months, you might enjoy it better if it's left white.

[Mr_Kaye]

How long were you aging on chips before you decided that they were 'meh'?

I have done a few tests. Longest I went was around 6 weeks, honestly don't remember, but would put it at that point without feeling
way off. I have done as little as a week. By "meh" I mean just that. Got the job done but I'm sure could be better. A little "resting",
for lack of a better term (and avoiding saying "aging" as I know it is not aging at that point) in the jar also helped to my taste. Than
again, my taste is not the standard by any means.

I suspected that might be the case. If you are going to drink it in weeks or months, you might enjoy it better if it's left white.

Some attempts are about making to learn, others are about making to drink. If I just wanted perfection, without learning, I'd just go spend some money at the liquor store. Kolb’s Learning Cycle, what can I say? Process the cycle, change an element, add required variables, cycle again. It's just how I take learning this craft and making it a lifelong hobby. Experience each element, yet master none. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, just hoping to understand why it rolls the way it does by looking at everything except how round the wheel actually is.

[NZChris]

Aging is more than adding oak flavor. The compounds extracted from the oak react with the compounds in the spirit making new compounds that didn't exist in either. The products of those reactions then react with the compounds from the wood and the spirit and each other to make even more compounds etc., until you interfere with the process by removing the wood or drinking it. These reactions need time and patience, the two most difficult ingredients for newbies to put into their bottles.

If you want to hurry it up, there are fast aging methods discussed in the forum.

[Mr_Kaye]

Aging is more than adding oak flavor. The compounds extracted from the oak react with the compounds in the spirit making new compounds that didn't exist in either. The products of those reactions then react with the compounds from the wood and the spirit and each other to make even more compounds etc., until you interfere with the process by removing the wood or drinking it. These reactions need time and patience, the two most difficult ingredients for newbies to put into their bottles.

If you want to hurry it up, there are fast aging methods discussed in the forum.

I bow to you, oh master of beating thy dead horse. Whom am I for attempting to look at anything beyond your focused opinion? I'm sorry for attempting to make the best out of the resources I have on hand over just throwing things in the trash. Likewise, I humbly apologize for attempting to understand what makes the wheel go around, while accepting plenty of variables beyond my skill level at this current time. It is completely my fault for even posing a question of using a redly available product, while admitting better options are available, multiple times. Please forgive me for realizing the position on end grain in the conversation previously and diverting track. I will do better to keep my tastes, skills, resources, knowledge and desires within yours in the future when it comes to this message board. I once again apologize and consider this thread closed.