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Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 3:51 pm
by Corn Cracker
I've gotten a few things over the last few months with a 3 inch pot still head in mind. I have a 30 inch piece of 3 inch, a 90 and a 3x1 reducer. My current condenser is 1inxh over half inch about 4 foot long. My concern where to reduce that volume of vapor to go either into my 1 inch thumper or straight into the 1 over ¾ condenser i will make for it
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 3:53 pm
by Corn Cracker
I was thinking of cutting the 3 inch in half giving a 15 inch tall head using the other as the line arm going to the reducer,I plan on getting another 90 to turn steaight down to accommodate for any pooling or smearing at the reducer, any thoughts?
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 4:26 pm
by Salt Must Flow
I would keep the full height for the riser. I personally prefer a tall riser so I don't have to squat on the floor to collect product.
On the top I would prefer two 90 elbows that way you can adjust the angle of your Liebig condenser to any angle. That joint will pivot very easily and then you can lock it into position with the clamp.
Your Liebig does NOT have to be straight up & down. The reducer will drain as long as you have some downward slope.
EDIT: The site won't let me post pics right now. I'll post a scale drawing of exactly what I'm describing.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 6:45 pm
by Yummyrum
What he said
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:21 pm
by Yummyrum
Bit hard to see , but if you zoom in on the pics of it running you can see the Tri-clamp between the two 90°s at the riser which make angling the liebig easy
viewtopic.php?t=89732
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 10:26 pm
by Salt Must Flow
There you go Yummy. We still can't upload pics, but we can post pics that have already been uploaded
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 11:24 pm
by Yummyrum
Not sure how you did that SMF , but thanks
EDIT : Corny , just wondering how much power you have to throw at this ?
For me , 2” riser down to a 1”over 3/4” was more than enough on my 50l gas fired keg boiler when driven so hard that flames would leap up the sides .
You say you have a 3” to 1” reducer . Iff’n you have a fuckton of power ( or a crack’n gas burner) , maybe you might consider going to a 1.25 “ over a 1” inner . Seems a waste to have a big riser and then channel it into a 3/4” inner . There will be a big increase in vapour speed that might blast all vapour through with poor condensing .
If you just have “average “ power , then having a 3” rise probably isn’t going to achieve a lot over a smaller diameter one and your proposed 1” over a 3/4” will piss it in regardless .
I guess I’m trying to say that the riser is generally not the bottle neck . It is usually the condenser open area .
The boiler makes the vapour , the condenser condenses it . The Riser is merely the inter connection .
If the Condenser can’t cope with the amount of vapour that the boiler is producing , changing the riser size won’t help .
1/2” tube had area 0.196” ^2
3/4” tube has area 0.441” ^2
1” tube has area 0.785” ^2
A long 1” liebig has as about as much knockdown as a 4 barrel 1/2” shotty .
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 4:37 am
by Corn Cracker
Ive got a 4500 watt element heating the still, the bottleneck is what im concerned about, going from 3 inch to ¾ seemed a bit too much of a restriction.
I know from the cleaning run with my 2 inch riser and my 1 inch over ½ liebig, steam was shooting out 3 foot before it started dissaipating up, that was a lot more vapor speed than I was used to. The 3 inch will, from my understanding, increase that take off speed. Im not even sure I need to go to 3 inch but, it seemed like a good plan for a 3 inch head on a pot.
I was meaning to 90 the reducer down to get past it in a vertical position and then another 45 or 90 to get back to somewhat horizontal
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:35 am
by OtisT
The diameter of the riser does not impact the rate you collect at, the take off speed. On a pot still, POWER is the only variable. (Discounting passive reflux and such).
The larger diameter and a tall riser will give you a lot more tolerance for foaming with more volume on the vapor side. It will also add some passive reflux and copper contact that are all beneficial.
I think placing the reducer on the horizontal is the way to go.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 8:37 am
by Pure Old Possum Piss
Personally, since you have 4.5kw to work with I'd go 4" on Riser then 2" to thumper or product condenser. You can use a 2>1 reducer with triclamps to hook to thumper or PC.
The larger the diameter of your PC, the longer the vapor dwell time and more efficiently uses water and more power it'll handle.
Main thing is to go larger than you think you need, you can always run it slower if you want. Besides it'll save you having to upgrade in a year or two, and Materials never be cheaper in the future. I'm currently using a 18" long liebig with a 1" pipe and 2" jacket, it'll handle 8Kw and knock it all down. But if I bump power up to 11Kw it starts to get vapor bypass though.i should have gone a little longer.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 9:01 am
by Pure Old Possum Piss
OtisT wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 8:35 am
The diameter of the riser does not impact the rate you collect at, the take off speed. On a pot still, POWER is the only variable. (Discounting passive reflux and such).
The larger diameter and a tall riser will give you a lot more tolerance for foaming with more volume on the vapor side. It will also add some passive reflux and copper contact that are all beneficial.
I think placing the reducer on the horizontal is the way to go.
Not sure I understand what your saying, Otis.
From my experience I've always understood that column/riser diameter has a direct affect on takeoff rates. If a 1" column produces 1 qt/hr, a 2" may produce 2qts/hr, but a 3" would produce 4qts/hr. My 4" puts out about 6-8qts/hr depending on if I'm stripping or not. Of course you need a PC that will knock down all that vapor.
I've thought about upgrading to a 6" or 8" column, not because I want to fill barrels but because my wife has Dementia and I can't leave her alone for long. When I used a 2" it took all day for a run so I stepped up to 4". That cut my time away from her by more than half. Plus after 40 years of doing this I no longer find it fun to sit in a hot shack starting a stream and changing jars.
The larger diameter definitely helps with foaming problems.
PS this is for columns, not pot stills.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 12:32 pm
by SW_Shiner
Pure Old Possum Piss wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 9:01 am
OtisT wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 8:35 am
The diameter of the riser does not impact the rate you collect at, the take off speed. On a pot still, POWER is the only variable. (Discounting passive reflux and such).
The larger diameter and a tall riser will give you a lot more tolerance for foaming with more volume on the vapor side. It will also add some passive reflux and copper contact that are all beneficial.
I think placing the reducer on the horizontal is the way to go.
Not sure I understand what your saying, Otis.
From my experience I've always understood that column/riser
These two terms are not interchangeable. Column for reflux, riser for pot still. diameter has a direct affect on takeoff rates. If a 1" column produces 1 qt/hr, a 2" may produce 2qts/hr, but a 3" would produce 4qts/hr. My 4" puts out about 6-8qts/hr depending on if I'm stripping or not. Of course you need a PC that will knock down all that vapor.
This is true for a reflux still, to a degree, its not perfectly linear. But for pot stills, the only dimention that really matters for take off speed is condenser size. The other factor for speed is power input.
I've thought about upgrading to a 6" or 8" column, not because I want to fill barrels but because my wife has Dementia and I can't leave her alone for long. When I used a 2" it took all day for a run so I stepped up to 4". That cut my time away from her by more than half. Plus after 40 years of doing this I no longer find it fun to sit in a hot shack starting a stream and changing jars.
The larger diameter definitely helps with foaming problems.
PS this is for columns, not pot stills.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 12:48 pm
by Salt Must Flow
Pure Old Possum Piss wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 9:01 am
OtisT wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 8:35 am
The diameter of the riser does not impact the rate you collect at, the take off speed. On a pot still, POWER is the only variable. (Discounting passive reflux and such).
The larger diameter and a tall riser will give you a lot more tolerance for foaming with more volume on the vapor side. It will also add some passive reflux and copper contact that are all beneficial.
I think placing the reducer on the horizontal is the way to go.
Not sure I understand what your saying, Otis.
From my experience I've always understood that column/riser diameter has a direct affect on takeoff rates. If a 1" column produces 1 qt/hr, a 2" may produce 2qts/hr, but a 3" would produce 4qts/hr. My 4" puts out about 6-8qts/hr depending on if I'm stripping or not. Of course you need a PC that will knock down all that vapor.
I've thought about upgrading to a 6" or 8" column, not because I want to fill barrels but because my wife has Dementia and I can't leave her alone for long. When I used a 2" it took all day for a run so I stepped up to 4". That cut my time away from her by more than half. Plus after 40 years of doing this I no longer find it fun to sit in a hot shack starting a stream and changing jars.
The larger diameter definitely helps with foaming problems.
PS this is for columns, not pot stills.
Diameter does not cause take-off rates to be faster or slower on a basic pot still. Increased 'power input' is what creates more vapor. The diameter of a riser does not affect the take-off rate, it only provides an area for the vapor to rise through. Larger dia has more area than smaller dia. That's why a basic pot still with a 2" riser performs identically to one with a 3" or 4" riser (same take-off rate at the same power input).
It's all about power input.
Now with a reflux column it's a bit different. IF you are accustomed to operating a reflux column that's X diameter with a specific power input and take-off rate ... you can upgrade to a column that's larger in dia that has twice the 'cross-sectional area' for instance. That will allow you to operate at twice the power and twice the take-off rate. This is made possible because you have twice the area of packing to interact with twice the rising vapor and twice the falling reflux.
Here it's all about Cross-Sectional Area.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 4:07 pm
by Corn Cracker
So in a packed column, the packing forces the vapor to slow down and that's why it can be reduced and function with a ¾ over ½ liebig, no problem?
I misspoke on the reducer i have, it's a 3x1½ and I have a 1½x1 in the fitting reducer to go in it.
I've also got a 3 inch copper flange to solder on the smooth ( not starred) top of the keg when im ready to cut the sankey out and install it. I wish it was 4inch for getting in and cleaning it.
I still can't upload pics and am in no big rush on this 3 inch project, I've only got 1 stripping run on the new keg build so far and I still need to learn how to drive it and the thumper
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 4:34 pm
by Saltbush Bill
Pure Old Possum Piss wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 9:01 am
Not sure I understand what your saying, Otis.
From my experience I've always understood that column/riser diameter has a direct affect on takeoff rates.
Otis is right, diameter only affects output speed of product when it involves packed / plated columns.
When it comes to pot stills energy input dictates product output speed.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 4:40 pm
by SW_Shiner
Corn Cracker wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 4:07 pm
So in a packed column, the packing forces the vapor to slow down and that's why it can be reduced and function with a ¾ over ½ liebig, no problem?
Yes and no.. columns also have a reflux condenser which does its own thing to vapour velocity.
I misspoke on the reducer i have, it's a 3x1½ and I have a 1½x1 in the fitting reducer to go in it.
I've also got a 3 inch copper flange to solder on the smooth ( not starred) top of the keg when im ready to cut the sankey out and install it. I wish it was 4inch for getting in and cleaning it.
I still can't upload pics and am in no big rush on this 3 inch project, I've only got 1 stripping run on the new keg build so far and I still need to learn how to drive it and the thumper
The condenser diameter and power input are what has an effect on take off speed. However at our hobby level size, the only thing that really has any change is the power input. For example, ive had the same keg boiler for many years and always just used the sanke port to connect my riser and condenser. It would happily spit out liquor at 3000w at between 3-4L/hour. I recently swapped out the sanke for a 4" port to accommodate my reflux column upgrade. And while i can now run azeo at 3+L/hour, pot still speed has remained the same.
Re: Stuff for a 3 inch upgrade
Posted: Sun May 25, 2025 5:03 pm
by Salt Must Flow
Corn Cracker wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 4:07 pm
So in a packed column, the packing forces the vapor to slow down and that's why it can be reduced and function with a ¾ over ½ liebig, no problem?
A 1" over 3/4" Liebig Condenser can handle 11000W if it's long enough. My 4' long Liebig 1" over 3/4" couldn't quite handle 11000W during a stripping run, but it would if it were longer. Shotgun condensers are excellent for stripping runs because they have MUCH more surface area for vapor to condense while having a relatively short overall length.
With a reflux column, MOST ALL of the vapor is condensed as reflux. Only a small fraction of the vapor exits as take-off therefore a reflux column doesn't require a very large product condenser.