Copper no good for distilling water? Alcohol not legal?

[Kentuckyman]

Well, I feel quite stupid. Especially since I am a lawyer who practices criminal defense...While reading the wiki, I have discovered that spirit distillation simply is not legal without a bunch of expensive licensing and so forth. I was under the impression that home distilling, for ones own use was allowable.

Having seen many sources on the net selling "moonshine stills" and even small glass ones in mailorder catalogs on airline flights advertising to "make your own brandy" and so forth that hobby distillation wasnt an offense if you didnt sell or barter for it...WRONG! Apparently it isnt like beer or wine making, where limited amounts for home use are legal, you even need a license to distill alcohol even for fuel! This is probably not news to those here? Or is there a legal way with affordable licensing? Most I've read about so far is outrageous expensive, making store bought product the way to go for myself.

The other thing I have discovered which completely submerges my plans is that distillation of water isnt best done with copper which is said to make the water have a funny taste. I have distilled my own water for years, using a Waterwise water purification system. My waterwise, while it still functions is several years old, makes a bunch of racket (internal fan used) while operating and sort of looks like the beat up spaceships in star wars. Plus it only does 1 gallon at the time. I thought I could kill two birds with one stone, but apparently stainless steel is the way to go for water purification. I originally paid about 250.00 for the waterwise, but now the same model is around 450.00!

Basically, my liebig is useless except as scrap or ornament and I need stainless steel. Working with stainless is beyond my capabilities, so I am dead in the water on this project. The only hope is that the info I have heard about copper being no good for drinking water taste is incorrect. The waterwise isnt copper, so there is likely something to this? Is there a reasonable way to legally be a hobby distiller? What is the story on water with copper? I was really looking forward to this, hopefully I can get some answers, but my reading tonight makes both fronts look grimm. Oh, yes I am in the USA.

Tell me it ain't so,

Kentuckyman

[Prairiepiss]

It's posted all over here that it is illegal.

And I don't like the taste of water distilled in a copper still. But then again distilled water isn't good for drinking anyway.

[MitchyBourbon]

Kentuckyman,

You are correct home distillation of alcohol is illegal. You are also correct that you do not want to use copper for distilling water as it does impart flavor into distilled water.

I have a question for you. I would like you to use all your powers as a criminal defender to formulate an answer.

Given that the guberment deems it is ok to consume liquor.
Given that the guberment deems it is ok distill at home for fuel.
Given that the guberment is ok with making wine at home.
Given that the guberment is ok with making beer at home.
Given that the guberment is ok with losing tax revenue from wine and beer.
Given that liquor is just distilled wine or beer and that distilling wine or beer can't magically produce poison (methanol), if it isn't in the wine or beer it won't be in the liquor.

Why is distilling alcohol for home use illegal?

I am perplexed.

[TDS]

For distilling just 1 gallon of water, use a solar slant type evaporation distiller. You can make one easy enough but there are many good ones on the market, cheap too. Unless it's a rush job.

[Stainless]

Are you an ex PROSECUTOR?

[sandsquirt]

Playing with stainless tri-clamp stuff and a keg. You could easily build a potstill for water. It's like playing with LEGO's. Do a search and also look at glaciertanks.com.

[drinkingdog]

You could always look at it this way. Since you are a criminal defense lawyer if you get caught your legal fees won't be much since you could defend yourself.

[Kentuckyman]

Kentuckyman,

You are correct home distillation of alcohol is illegal. You are also correct that you do not want to use copper for distilling water as it does impart flavor into distilled water.

I have a question for you. I would like you to use all your powers as a criminal defender to formulate an answer.

Given that the guberment deems it is ok to consume liquor.
Given that the guberment deems it is ok distill at home for fuel.
Given that the guberment is ok with making wine at home.
Given that the guberment is ok with making beer at home.
Given that the guberment is ok with losing tax revenue from wine and beer.
Given that liquor is just distilled wine or beer and that distilling wine or beer can't magically produce poison (methanol), if it isn't in the wine or beer it won't be in the liquor.

Why is distilling alcohol for home use illegal?

I am perplexed.

I am in full agreement with what you are saying. I have read many warnings not to sell or even barter home distillates, and yes further reading has made it obvious that ANY such activities are illegal. I fully under stand if you were selling it, or counterfeiting know brands for profit, but seeing the scads of stills available for sale I guess gave me a blind eye for home use. I am glad I read further before starting up with the hobby! It is perplexing that beer and wine is OK within certain limits and amounts,
but home distillation is not. You are also correct on the tax situation, no license is required for home brew. All I can suggest is two reasons: This Nation was originally financed through taxing the making of Whiskey, which led to the Whiskey rebellion. It was put down, and the tax remains to this day. That still doesnt answer the question of why I cant home distill AND pay the tax license or whatever. This leads me to point number 2, all the hype from the early (and perhaps this still goes on) of poorly made product using any old thing which may contain lead, to adulterants that may be poisonous being added for profit and so on. I guess even if it is for yourself, the government chooses to protect you. Odd, I can reload my own bullets at home, possibly making a mistake and turning my gun into a bomb from double powdered (with some powders and loads) to missing the powder load entirely by accident resulting in a "squib" round with only a primer that sends the lead about halfway down your barrel, making the next shot an explosion. But, I cant drink distillate that is other than water. Educating lawmakers would be the only course to take, and the carrot to dangle in front of them is tax revenue by way of an affordable hobby license. Perhaps a class must be taken and stills inspected. Nuts, you can make gun trusts and buy tax stamps for owning silencers and machine guns, and it isnt way expensive, but not make whiskey.

The reason is two fold, each feeding the other: All the old hype, combined with a huge lobby maintained by the liquor business that doesnt want to see their profits going away by allowing home hobby distilling. Those involved in this country ( and on this forum) who are legally involved or in the commercial distilling would be the ones in position to educate law makers most effectively. This law (as far as home hobby distilling for your own consumption) is a bit outdated and needs looked at. It is hard for anyone engaged in the hobby to step up without likely being prosecuted! It will take those in the legal sector of licensed distilling to take this message. I suppose those of us who are interested but not participating in the hobby could help this along, but given the existing political climate you would likely end up as a target for various government agencies. The folk to bring this forward are those who do it legally, and there very well may be ramifications of their doing so that might make them shy away.

This is an issue which should be at the forefront of forums like this one. Until then, another hobby idea bites the dust and wont even be started! Lord knows my electronic and firearm hobbies are barely affordable....but dam, this sounded too good to be true! A federal hobby license sure would be sweet!

Any other discussion? Oh, and that's all hype that distilled water is bad for you, there is a lot of BS on the internet about that. Read up on the waterwise site where they will take apart those viewpoints...

Kentuckyman

[Bushman]

Interesting and you bring up some valid points. For years Absinthe was illegal in the US as they felt that the wormwood used to make it was an hallucinogen, once proven not to be the case it has taken off among many circles here in the US. We even have a forum specific to Absinthe. I am guessing that the law makers are not up on the safety issues we strongly enforce here at HD and are afraid many will end up hurting themselves by making a still into a bomb.

[jholmz]

kentuckyman if your looking to distill water you might want to check into state laws also as some states its even illegal just to have a still. in my state its illegal to distill anything but water own or have in your possesion any still with a capacity over one gallon for distilling said water

[Husker]

This leads me to point number 2, all the hype from the early (and perhaps this still goes on) of poorly made product using any old thing which may contain lead, to adulterants that may be poisonous being added for profit and so on. I guess even if it is for yourself, the government chooses to protect you.

You have bought into the LIE (propaganda) the gooberment is perpetuating here, that they are doing this to protect you. "Do it for the children...." type crap.

Do a little research, and you will find that it is the government itself that has poisoned (PURPOSELY), and actually KILLED more people during the prohibition era than moonshiners adding adulterants. It is figured that 15 to 20k people were killed by our own govt with poisoned drink. Yes, there certainly were some very bad things happening. However, thinking the gooberment is here to protect you, is simply almost the same as sheep listening to a wolf in a sheepskin. Govn 'protected' in many ways (not all), is simply a ploy to allow enough people to have their perspective changed, so that THEY allow the gooberment to do things that the gooberment does not have legal power to do.

Here is a starting link to the information. There is a LOT more information. Some of it is not easy to find. Gooberment is good as squashing out information it does not want known.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... s_war.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

H.

[Kentuckyman]

This leads me to point number 2, all the hype from the early (and perhaps this still goes on) of poorly made product using any old thing which may contain lead, to adulterants that may be poisonous being added for profit and so on. I guess even if it is for yourself, the government chooses to protect you.

You have bought into the LIE (propaganda) the gooberment is perpetuating here, that they are doing this to protect you. "Do it for the children...." type crap.

Do a little research, and you will find that it is the government itself that has poisoned (PURPOSELY), and actually KILLED more people during the prohibition era than moonshiners adding adulterants. It is figured that 15 to 20k people were killed by our own govt with poisoned drink. Yes, there certainly were some very bad things happening. However, thinking the gooberment is here to protect you, is simply almost the same as sheep listening to a wolf in a sheepskin. Govn 'protected' in many ways (not all), is simply a ploy to allow enough people to have their perspective changed, so that THEY allow the gooberment to do things that the gooberment does not have legal power to do.

Here is a starting link to the information. There is a LOT more information. Some of it is not easy to find. Gooberment is good as squashing out information it does not want known.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... s_war.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

H.

Whoa buddy, I havent bought into anything! I am stating an opinion on why they do what they do, not agreeing with it. I said "HYPE" did you miss that?

As to the other post inquiring if I am a prosecutor...no! only defense work, that's the other side! However, when I was first licensed, I was going off on one of my mentors stating how I could never sit on that side of the table. He said, wait a min., they need fair minded people....maybe, but not this guy. I have done defense only for over 20 years!

Kentuckyman

[Kentuckyman]

Are you an ex PROSECUTOR?

Reread the first line!

Kentuckyman

[Kentuckyman]

kentuckyman if your looking to distill water you might want to check into state laws also as some states its even illegal just to have a still. in my state its illegal to distill anything but water own or have in your possesion any still with a capacity over one gallon for distilling said water

Many of the waterwise water purification stills are 1 gallon, but not all. They go up very large capacity, and I see no states on their website that are banned from sales. I dont think they could be used for alcohol, and if that was what you wanted DIY would be way cheaper for those inclined. These are not inexpensive devices, and the large ones have large price tags. Google waterwise purification for more info.

Kentuckyman

[Prairiepiss]

Any other discussion? Oh, and that's all hype that distilled water is bad for you, there is a lot of BS on the internet about that. Read up on the waterwise site where they will take apart those viewpoints...

And you can find as many from the other side disproving their points. It goes back and forth. Just like anything else on the net. You can find whatever you want to back whatever you want to be true. And when you have so many so called experts on both sides. It's really just a bunch of opinions.

Kinda like eating eggs. One week its good for you. The next week its bad for you. Then the following week the yokes are bad for you. Every time you turn around. Another expert gets to voice his opinion.

But after reading many things over from both sides. It's pretty simple. Distilled water by osmosis will pull minerals out of what ever it is added to. This could be a good thing. If done sparingly. But not if done all the time. It would be depleting your body of minerals. We had a botanist here on the forums at one time. Who backed this up. He would use distilled water to remove bad minerals from plants. But he did it in scheduled doses. Because if he used just distilled water for his plants. They would die from mineral depletion.

It's much like using it for fermenting. If you do so. You have to add additional minerals for yeast health.

Now what's the use of distilling water. To remove needed minerals. When you just have to add them back in? In some form or another. A well maintained RO filter system. Is much better suited for drinking water.

Now not saying that in an emergency distilling wouldn't be the way to go. But that's and emergency situation. That shouldn't last for ever.

But this subject is pretty bad about hard core believers. That throw on the blinders. And can't see past them. On both sides. So you just have to make up your own opinion. Derived from good research on both sides.

[Husker]

I said "HYPE" did you miss that?

Yes I did. I was not trying to make a personal attack with the post, just point things to some of the reality of the issue. When the gooberment is telling you it is doing something 'for your protection', you better look over your shoulder, and take a FIRM hold on your wallet.

[Kentuckyman]

I said "HYPE" did you miss that?

Yes I did. I was not trying to make a personal attack with the post, just point things to some of the reality of the issue. When the gooberment is telling you it is doing something 'for your protection', you better look over your shoulder, and take a FIRM hold on your wallet.

Amen brother I agree 100% with what you are saying here. Same thing on the hang on to your wallet, again I agree 100%....usually one of their buddies stands to make a fortune over what we are being stuck in the wallet over. Sad days, these.

On a better note, reading in the legal section of this forum, it appears Missouri (where I am right now) has a somewhat relaxed attitude towards HD. Still, the federal government isnt fazed by this, and they are all powerful, like the wizard of Oz. LOL. No probs Husker, we are actually on the same plane on this issue.

Kentuckyman

[Prairiepiss]

The problem is again. People that want to distill are reading what they can find on Missouri laws. And only reading parts of it. I've dug deep into it. And I had found specific laws that stated distilling for personal use was illegal. So you should do the same. Before you beleave something read that was not published by the state. Not to mention any local municipal laws. But you already knew that.

[jholmz]

kentuckyman if your looking to distill water you might want to check into state laws also as some states its even illegal just to have a still. in my state its illegal to distill anything but water own or have in your possesion any still with a capacity over one gallon for distilling said water

Many of the waterwise water purification stills are 1 gallon, but not all. They go up very large capacity, and I see no states on their website that are banned from sales. I dont think they could be used for alcohol, and if that was what you wanted DIY would be way cheaper for those inclined. These are not inexpensive devices, and the large ones have large price tags. Google waterwise purification for more info.

Kentuckyman

yes they can sell in any state but its still not legal to own just like you see sites advertise "moonshine stills" for sale even though it is illegal in all 50 states and most other countries to make shine. if you look at their disclaimer it states that its up to you to use it legally. and they are required by law to keep records of sales and to hand over those records when requested by the government. just because its legal for them to take your money dosnt mean its legal for you to have it
here i found where id seen it its in the wiki Carol Coy Industry Specialist National Revenue Center-Cincinnati, OH Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms e-mail: cjcoy@cinc.atf.treas.gov

What all this basically comes down to is ... 1. Americans can own a still, but it must be no larger than 1 gallon, and may only be used for water purification or the extraction of essential oils from plants. 2.Dealers/manufacturers of stills in the United States must surrender any address or other info on any customer who buys a still to the BATF, when they request it.(no warrant is required.)

[MitchyBourbon]

Thanks Kentuckyman.

[NineInchNails]

Loose lips sink ships. Don't tell anyone. What you do in the privacy of your own home is ONLY your business. When was the last time ATF kicked in your door? Probably never. Why would they any time in the future? Build your own still. Do what you like in private just like the MANY that have been doing so for a very long time. Teach the right way and pass it on!

If you would like to see home distillation legal in the US ... I doubt that will happen any time soon. People pay tax when they buy beer, wine or anything containing alcohol. That's all the Gov cares about, money/tax. They don't care if you distill taxed wine into brandy, you already paid the tax.