4 Inch Hybrid 2 Stage Dephleg

[Sungy]

So I proposed this concept in my previous build and was told it was to hard to manufacture for the average builder. Well not one to shy away from a challenge, I said "lets design and build this thing". With a concept and some drawings in hand and a lot of time watching my current rig running I monitored all the temperatures and flow rates. The response times and flow rates threw the dephleg convinced me I was on the right track. So I decided to make a new rig. This is the first piece of my new still for you to ponder.

I do agree that it was difficult to weld all the pieces together and get a tight seal. After repairing a few leaks I FINALLY got it tight. Pressure tested to 60 PSIG.
I have all the pipe needed to make this build but time is short because of my sons football season. 3 practices a week and a game as well makes us very busy. I have some other plans for subtle improvements but I have to build them before you see them. I have all the pieces cut for the product condenser and will have to make some easy flanges on the 2 inch pipe before welding it all together.

I will post some pics in a week or so of the product condenser.

[Prairiepiss]

Interesting build. But I'm lost on the cooling ports? Two on the bottom and one on the top? How does it get from the bottom to the top?

[Sungy]

Sorry it took so long to make the next post in this build.
Here is the water path for this new dephleg.

Hybrid Dephleg Water Path.GIF (12.42 KiB) Viewed 12755 times

And here is the future build and all her new features.
Note that I have designed a trap system that should eliminate traps blowing out. Suspending the trap below the plate will double the trap height. It will also extend the effective plate life. Meaning that the plate will still perform even at the end of the run when the boiler is getting low on alcohol.
Here is the plan I have developed so far based on the previous build I have made and its performance.

This will be a modular build. Allowing for multiple plate configurations, 2,3,4,5,6. I have started to construct the condensers but still have some ideas about the plates. From what I have read there is a hole size o 1/16 inch and about 166 holes for a 4 inch build.

Well what do you think of these changes?

[Prairiepiss]

Holy crap. You made that condenser. Now I remember the talk about it. Can't wait to see how it performs.

[myles]

Wow - that's one way to do it. You have combined multiple liebigs above a small dephlegmator. Mine is going to be a 2 stage but not built like that. Very nice though. Just controlled by flow rate or controlled by a gate valve on the lower outlet?

[emptyglass]

Don't forget Sungy, once the J cup dries up, its all over. Temp will rise and boil it out.

You get pretty good tails compression anyway. A lot of work to try it, I wish you well. You might be on to something.

[Bushman]

My first impression was the same as PP's, very different than most designs keep us posted. Still not sure about the two ports at the bottom as water travels to the least resistance, I am wondering if you will have enough coolent traveling up to the top and still not sure why you want it to leave at the bottom.

[myles]

Mine will have the 3 coolant ports very simmilar to what is proposed, although the design of the top part is different. I intend to put a 3 way valve on the middle port so it can be both an input and as an output.

Like this.

dephlegmator plumbing.png (3.18 KiB) Viewed 12684 times

The gate valve gives you the reduced flow rate required when you just want partial reflux, but when the 3 way valve is turned to be an input you get full flow rate coolant fed into the dephlegmator to fill it for total reflux.

[mash rookie]

Sungy that is some fine craftsmanship. It will be cool to look at clamped up in your column. I am not sure there is any advantage but if it gets the job done great. I love to see things done a little differently. Its going to be a bitch to polish. It reminds me of Roman columns holding up a great structure.






Myles that is just crazy over thought. Why not just use larger feed lines and one gate valve for flow control?

[myles]

Well MR that is a perfectly good question so this is what I am thinking, and it may be even more so than you expect.

full reflux to partial reflux can be controlled with just a 180 degree turn in a ball valve. The multi turn gate valve then gives you fine control over the temperature of the coolant for partial reflux. Yes I know it is a bit OTT.

It is driven by this earlier version of a VM head.


Note the twin gate valves on the coolant output? 1 is preset to the coolant flow required to stabilise the column at a preset low power on the controller (with the second gate valve closed). The second valve provides additional coolant required during the run at normal power. It is just an alternative way of doing things.

[Sungy]

Ok so here we go.

The cooling water goes into my product condenser. Out of the product condenser it goes to a 3 way valve which will allow for flow adjustments to the hybrid dephlegmator. The bottom port of the 3 way valve is going to feed my evaporative fluid cooler. The last port will feed my Dephlegmator. .The entrance pipe for cooling water to the dephleg ( the bottom pipe) goes threw the vapor space inside the column. It then enters the bottom of the dephleg water box ( this is the water space between the 2 bottom plates. This space is 1 1/2 inch tall.) The bottom water box is a one pass from left to right around the ( 7 ) 1/2 inch vapor tubes. There are two outlets for my dehleg. The middle outlet is from the first stage described above. The highest outlet is for the 2nd stage. Both of these outlets are piped into a 3 way valve so i can select to pull water from the middle or the top outlet and if needed to modulate between them. The second stage of this depleg is 7 mini leibig condensers that are 6 inch long. They are constructed with 1/2 inch inner and 3/4 outer tubes. The inner tubes have 14 gauge wire spiraled around them for turbulence. The last port of the second 3 way valve will be a supply line to my evaporative condenser coil.

The evaporative condenser will be a glorified swamp cooler.

Now for the cool bit. I have tested this set up with water and the pressure drop across the 7 leibig condensers is high enough that a valve on the 1 st stage will control both stages. Meaning that with the middle outlet having an open 1/2 inch ball valve on it the water flows threw the valve not up the liebigs. Close the middle valve and presto up the roman column liebigs she goes.

The point of this build is to be able to run in second stage for warm up and 100% reflux. Then to close the 2nd 3 way vavle and just use the 1st stage at full flow.

That being said in full reflux my water temp rise, will be small maybe 10- 12 'F . Then changing over to product take off should be quick. The roman columns have much less water and there fore it will heat up faster. When in product take off mode the water box on the (bottom) first stage should be able to give me enough reflux at full flow of cooling water. If at full flow the water will not be in contact with the heat exchanger surface for long and thus will not gain much temperature.
My hope is that will result in less overall temperature rise for my cooling water for the whole run. If correct ...... more stable operation of my still will be possible because of more constant cooling water temperature. Being able to find that sweet-spot and keep it there with out constant adjustment .....that's the goal.

Hope this helps clarify my intentions.

[Sungy]

Don't forget Sungy, once the J cup dries up, its all over. Temp will rise and boil it out.

That is why I have soldered the pipe cap traps below the plate for all the upper plates. The bottom plate is the only one with the j trap. I'm going to oversize it. Also I have found that if your trap is located in the 4 - 5 inch range of the bottom of your column after a size change ( say from 2 to 4 inch)there is a huge turbulence. (my current rig has a sight glass below the bottom plate so I could monitor the trap) This turbulence will bounce your trap fluid level by almost 1/2 inch. This new design will help because im going to open up my keg outlet to 4 inch and my bottom plate will be 8 1/2 inch above boiler opening. The bottom trap will also be oversized say aprox. 1 1/4 inch deep.

[Sungy]

. Its going to be a bitch to polish. It reminds me of Roman columns holding up a great structure.






Myles that is just crazy over thought. Why not just use larger feed lines and one gate valve for flow control?

I love the roman column idea...never thought about it that way....Hmmm being lookin at this for weeks now....

As for polish and cleaning....got a buddy with a sand blaster. Thought it might look cool that way.

[Prairiepiss]

It would be neat if you could flute the Roman columns.

Sand blasting does have a good look. When I did my plate I really liked it. To bad it doesn't stay that way for long. You will need to coat it to keep like that.

[Sungy]

You will need to coat it to keep like that.

Do you have any suggestion for a coating?

Also am I correct in using 166 holes at 1/16 inch diameter for 4 inch sieve plates. The Flute talk thread has many different sizes listed but this seem to be what I have seen in some current builds.

[Prairiepiss]

I haven't coated any of mine. They all look like crap. But I know OD had posted some good info on it.

And the holes. Emptyglass would be a good one to ask about hole sizes and amount of them.

[mash rookie]

You will need to coat it to keep like that.

Do you have any suggestion for a coating?

Also am I correct in using 166 holes at 1/16 inch diameter for 4 inch sieve plates. The Flute talk thread has many different sizes listed but this seem to be what I have seen in some current builds.

Yes. 1/16" Buy bits by the dozen. Use lots of oil and go slow. very slow. Swearing when breaking bits is allowed.. Valium is advised.

[Sungy]

Swearing when breaking bits is allowed.. Valium is advised.

Way to funny ...I almost fell off my chair...

[sevens]

That's some nice craftmanship you got there! Can't wait to see how she preforms!!

[Sungy]

I went shopping this week and picked up some fittings and 3 way valves. Ordered up some 4" tri clamps and pounded out some easy flanges. Still need to thicken up the flanges and grind them down to shape. I finished my 4 barrel product condenser . The effective tube length is 16.5 inches x 4 tubes. The overall 2 inch tube is 18.5 inches long .

Here is a pic of the progress so far. The 2 inch to 4 inch reducer needs to be cut down in length (height is at a premium in my basement) and the 180 return bend will also get a bit of a trim.
Here are a few shots of the condensers from top and bottom

I need to make a 4 inch flange jig up this weekend and then start on the column and plates.

[Bushman]

Nice pics and I am very interested in what your flange jig looks like and the steps in making your flanges as that can save a lot of money in builds. Keep us posted with pics.

[Sungy]

So here is the work I did today.

I made a wood clamp assembly to aid in the flanges...to no avail ...it splintered......back to the drawing board. Well I found a piece of 4 inch ABS out in the shed. i cut a 4 inch piece off the end of the scrap and slit it end wise. Slid that over the 4 inch type L copper pipe and clamped the thing into a Ridgid tripod pipe vice. once the chain was firmly attached all went well. flange one section and rotate. worked my way around ok. So I did the same thing again with a 2 inch section of 4 inch pipe. WOW that worked. Let the good times roll...

And here is what makes it all worth it.
Mr P's firepiss , Raspberry Panty Dropper and Apple Pie

[myles]

Are you doing the flange with some sort of roller tool, or just using a hammer?

[Sungy]

Ball peen hammer and a few cigars for me.

[myles]

Ball peen hammer and a few cigars for me.

Looks good , especially the one done on the reducing coupler. Nice idea that.
Are you intending to build it up with rod (copper or brass) or do you have another plan in mind? Some do it with copper tube instead, and I even heard someone talking about laminating big copper washers, cut from sheet.

[Sungy]

So I have been scrounging around and came across this little beauty. It a 2 speed 120 volt double ended blower from a kitchen range hood exhauster. The fan speed controller is just a 3 speed selector switch I had laying around.

I also made a interlaced 4 pass fluid cooler coil. Its 4.5 x 4.5 x 10 inches plus the headers.

The coil will be inserted into a vertical duct ( length as yet unknown)the fan will blow into the duct from the side and the entrances will have rain hoods to stop the water coming out the holes for the blower. The bottom will be placed threw a hole in my 45 gallon drum lid and extend into the water making an air seal for the discharge from the fan. The bypass water from my pump will spray over the coil to give me an evaporative effect on the coil. The hot moist air from the fluid cooler top end will then be ducted to the return air of my furnace in winter and in summer out the window.

I will post some more pics when the tin work is done....happy stillin

[Sungy]

I have some more shots of my cooling tower build.

Here is what I have made so far. I still have to make an adapter for the top of the tower to add the 6 inch flex duct to. the bottom still needs a plate and drain line to the 45 gallon barrel.

Here is a shot of the inside from the top. Notice I removed one side of the copper packing so you can see the coil. There will be two layers of scrubbers. The bar across the top is a spray bar. It has 46 1/16 holes scattered around the bottom side of the bar to spray over the packing and coil.
Once I have finished making the last pieces of tin I will take it all apart and silicone seal all the joints. That will make it water tight. I tested the spray bar and it works great.

[mash rookie]

Sungy, I am impressed. You have a great creative side and the skills to implement your ideas. Keep up the fine work. I am enjoying watching your build. You have Myles looking over your shoulder too. We love to see fresh ideas and good craftsmanship.

[Sungy]

Well Thank You. As I progress with this build I get more excited to see all the new bits put together for a run. Just cant wait.

[myles]

I just had to re-read this from the start. That multiple liebig dephlegmator is something else,very nice indeed - as an alternative product condenser it has great potential. Seems to me you are definitely pushing the boundaries between architecture and what we do.

I already have more condensers than stills, and now you have me just itching to build another one that I don't need.

Functional art Can't fault it. As for the cooling tower it is nice. What sort of noise levels are you getting off the fans?