Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

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Odin
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Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by Odin »

Here's a translate with some info on the results obtained with resveratrol. A bit "me so happy, love you long, long time"-English, but let's blame Google Translate for that:

"
Operation
Edit:
When yeast cells have been shown that resveratrol the survival time of the cells with an average of 70% can extend, probably due to activation of the sirtuin. [6] Also for organisms such as flies and worms has been shown that the substance is led to a longer life span of cells. [7] or the chemical compound also for human cells, such a life-extending effect, is still unknown.
Studies suggest an effect that cancer at bay. [1] [2] [8] [9] This is especially true against breast cancer. [10] [11] [12] In animal studies provides resveratrol genetic protection against ionizing radiation. [13]
In addition, resveratrol seems to have an antibacterial and fungicidal action, and to be anti-inflammatory, inter alia by means of inhibition of COX-2. [6]
"

Let's move backwards in time for a change of perspective. France. Late 1970's. French Paradox. Which one? The one where dietists found out that peopleinthe south west of France eat about the worst diet possible, yet they lived long & healthy. Significantly longer and significantly healthier.

How was that possible? Long time research came up with resveratrol. A polywhatever present in the skins of grapes and in red wine. Now guess what those Frenchies drank pretty much the whole day ... red wine. While they were not eating grapes, that is.

More research. Resveratrol seems to activate or trigger the disposal of malfunctioning cells or other small parts of plants, bodies, animals. Normally we live, eat, and are about fine. The body does not do a big job in cleaning up or repairing damaged cells. The body does not need to be 100% efficient. Plenty of food, shelter, etc.

Now back to another Paradox. Which one? The Dutch Paradox of 1945. The so called hunger winter. Western parts of Holland were still occupied by German troops. No food came in, people starved. Funny thing (if that is the right phrase): those who survived were actually healthier. For 6 months and later for more years to come, especially people from the big cities (where famin was the worst) would live with less hearts disease, less cancer, less sugar problems.

What happened? In times of stress the body does repair itsself to obtain 100% efficiency. The trigger marker in the blood to dispose of damaged cells, or to repair them? Resveratrol.

Back to France and towards an explanation: Consuming additional resveratrol seems to help the body to preserve itsself in a better state.

Studies to proove it? Some. First tests on yeast show a longer life of like 70% longer. And the antibacterial and anti-fungal capacities of resveratrol helped them survive in a more hostile environment for longer. Ever since that study, there have been others. On wurms (yes, they live longer too) and on mice (yep, another success!). Really long term studies on humans have not been done yet (well, apart from the Dutch and French Paradoxes - both well documented and statistically sound), but this forum is not about making us live longer.

What triggered me, is that it helps the yeast live longer, stay healthier, and has anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties.

Now wouldn't that be a great addition in - say - UJSSM or similar recipes, where we use the yeast over and over again in multiple generations? It might help them stay in better shape. And yeast in better shape produces alcohol in better shape, I guess. May resveratrol help the yeast do a better job while they are working to turn those sugars into alcohol? Will resveratrol help the yeast to better cope with the slightly poisonous environment they have to live in (alcohol)? Does resveratrol help them to better survive the dormant period of a few days between new generations of fermentation? My gues is, it may. And for sure the anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties of resveratrol will help the yeast keep its monopoly on sugar consumption in your wash.

It will be difficult to do really scientific studies, but I will give it a try anyhow.I will start to put like 50 mg of resveratrol in each new UJ ferment from now onwards. So far, I do not think I ever ran further than like 12 generations. Sometimes I get an fungal infection halfway down that number. Sometimes I feel taste deteriorates after generation 10 or 11. Sometimes I lose interest in a recipe. Okay, that last bit cannot be helped.

Okay, some resveratrol experiments are on their way! I will keep you posted.

Odin.
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by midwest shinner »

Very interesting Odin, we sell capsules of resveratrol in the vitamin section at my work. Maybe i will have try this on some multigenerational recipes... Keep us posted of your findings
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

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I will! I think the goal will be if I can now make more than 12 generations and still be happy with taste. It would be interesting to see if cuts, taste are affected as well!

Regards, Odin.

Edit: I just invited people on the Dutch forum who are doing UJ's to join in and share their experiences. Same goes here. MW if you have easy access to Resveratrol ... you are more than welcome to join me in this quest!
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by Prairiepiss »

Would you need to add a little to each generation? How much?
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Odin
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by Odin »

Yes PP, I would add a bit to each new generation.

If we look at the tests done on mice and wurms and flies (who wants them to live longer?), the equivalent in relation to body mass seems to be around 2 grams = 2,000 milligrams per 75 kilo's. That's 2,000 milligrams per 75,000 grams per day. And that is a lot. If you look at Resveratrol for humans, it is usually like 200 to 300 milligrams per pill. One, maybe twice a day. That's like max. 500 milligrams per 75,000 grams (average human weight).

Okay, that gives us a baseline. 2,000 devided by 75,000 is 2 devided by 75 is 1 devided by 37.5. One milligram of Resveratrol per 37.5 grams of bodily weight. Now, taking the liberty of stating that yeast follows this same rule ... that means that 37.5 gramsof yeast would need 1 milligram of Resveratrol per day.

Another baseline. Remember human consumption? And how it is much lower than the experiments on mice, etc.? Like 500 mg per 75 kilo's? That would give us - translated to yeast - 150 grams of yeast and 1 milligram of Resveratrol per day.

I think these two baselines could give us a starting point. Upper and lower starting point (hey, you have to start somewhere!). Here we go: the need for resveratrol for yeast would be between 1 milligram of Resveratrol per 37.5 grams of yeast (upper limit) and 1 milligram of Resveratrol per 150 grams. Translated to per 100 grams of yeast ( rounded of) ...
"
Statement number one:
"100 grams of yeast should benefit from at least 1 mg of Resveratrol per day."

Second statement for the upper limit:
"100 grams of yeast will benefit up until 3 mg of Resveratrol per day."

In general: any yeast population of about 100 grams should benefit of an addition of Resveratrol of between 1 and 3 milligrams per day.

Okay, onwards to the next step. How much yeast is in a general in - let's say - a normal UJ as prescribed by Uncle Jessie (around 20 liters)? And another step: how long does a ferment take? Again,let's take UJ as a point of reference.

Difficult to say how much yeast is in a standard 20 liters UJ. I think you can start it up with 20, maybe 30 grams. I know I have without any problems. But when I look at the thrub at the bottom of the fermenter after just 2 or 3 generations ... it looks more like a kilo. But is that truly a kilo of yeast? I do not think so. I think there is liquid. And there are grain particles, and there is a lot of dead yeast as well. But the yeast bed has increased from the original maybe 30 grams to start with. For sure.

But by how much has the yeast population grown? This is an open Q for me. I do not know. Maybe anything from 150 grams to 300 grams would be an adequate estimate?

Next step. Easier one. How long (how many days) does a ferment take? About a week. Five, six, maybe seven days.

So for a healthy yeast population of 150 grams to ferment for up until a week ... Between 1.5 and 4.5 milligrams per day. A 300 grams yeast population would need between 3 and 9 milligrams of Resveratrol per day.

That would mean that any standard UJ ferment, from generation 2 onwards would need anything from 20 to around 50 mg of Resveratrol.

I just started up gen 2 of a rye based UJ like a few days ago. With 50 mg per bucket.

Since we are just starting the experiment and I make quite a few guesses (especially to weight of yeast population) I invite anybody with better numbers to chime in!

Regards, Odin.
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by midwest shinner »

So Odin are you saying that gens 2 and onward of UJ would need 20-50mg per day? or just at start up? Also, I haven't done many multi-generational batches as ther have been so many recipes that I wanted to try that I've done a different batch pretty much every ferment. But now that I've been at this a while, I am starting to know what I like and thus what I want to do multiple generations of. So while I don't have much in the past to base my findings on, I will give this a try and can report my current findings. I actually just started up a 2nd gen of some faux wheat whiskey, so I will pick up some resveratrol next time I'm at work and will start with it on gen 3 of my faux wheat. Very interesting topic, thanks again for bringing it to our attention :thumbup:
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by Odin »

My take on it as for now is: 50 mg on a 30 liter bucket that is filled with 25 liters of wash/grains, etc. One pill of 50 mg in the beginning of the fermentation, not every day.

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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by midwest shinner »

Cool, i kinda figured that was for each ferment and not everyday, but just wanted to be sure. I will report back when progress is made.
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by midwest shinner »

Bad news Odin, apparently my work stopped carrying resveratrol recently. So i will have to try and find it elsewhere if i want to try it out...
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by lampshade »

How many generations is realistic for UJSSM with our Resveratol?
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by Odin »

No idea. Just starting the experiment, Lampshade!

Regards, Odin.
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by just sayin »

If Wikipedia is correct, the roots of a nasty invasive weed that seem to been taking over much of the US's Mid-Atlantic States appears to be the primary commercial source of resveratrol. Image search Japanese knot weed: stems look rather like bamboo, big leaves, grows 8-10' tall, dies to the ground at the first frost. Do we have any botanists or herbalists who could tell us if this could be a safe free source for many of us? A half hour of digging might yield a life times supply. It is native most of Asia thru parts of Europe...............................Just Sayin'
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Re: Resveratrol to keep your yeast in shape

Post by woodshed »

I will try this on some of my yeast. Flavors? Will be interesting.
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