Apple the easier way ??

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Oldvine Zin
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Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:49 pm

While I totally admire and respect the "Apple Master of the Northwest" - Cranky-, I remember him musing about time spent foraging and processing apples vs time at the real job. Free fruit and lots of labor (less if you have the cool tools that cranky built) vs putting your paycheck down and buying the precious juice.

A few years ago I tried a small apple ferment from store bought cider and hopped it up with a little concentrate (all Washington fruit). I was not so impressed with it that I gave most of it away, that was also after I tried some of cranky's wonderful apple. I found a stashed away bottle a couple of months ago and really it wasn't so bad - Time and age! So that was with crap juice could it be better with quality juice?? One of my local brew shops was offering fresh unpasteurized apple juice blend of seven apples ( Gravs, Jona, Summer Red,Gala, Dabinett ,and Brown Snouts.) for $8ish a gal, I missed out on last years offering so I jumped on this one and ordered 50 gals.

50 gals of apple juice would be a bit over 700 LBS of apples plus a lot of work to get them into juice form. So $500 to fill a fermentor at this point in my life was worth a try. Got the juice today, wow so tasty and sweet but the sugars were only 13.5 brix, my first thought was to amp up the juice, Ive got bags of panella and could get those numbers up. But stop I'm trying to make the best apple brandy not apple rum... I'll be happy with a 7isn abv wash and let the apple flavor come through No added sugar
IMG_5455.JPG
EC1118 pitched

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by goose eye » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:56 am

$10.00 a gal for cider? Dern

Think I'd go visit some orchards lookin deer apples for vinegar. Ask them if they know a squeezer. Tell them you got your on mother so don't put none in.

Run them $10.00 a gallon cider numbers with no sugar an brandy would be about
$250.00 a gal to about break even course
that me cypherin for the fun of it.


So I'm tole

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Oldvine Zin
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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:06 pm

goose eye wrote:$10.00 a gal for cider? Dern

Think I'd go visit some orchards lookin deer apples for vinegar. Ask them if they know a squeezer. Tell them you got your on mother so don't put none in.

Run them $10.00 a gallon cider numbers with no sugar an brandy would be about
$250.00 a gal to about break even course
that me cypherin for the fun of it.


So I'm tole
If in I wanted to make cheep licker I was tole just take some of that beet sugar that you kin buy at the big box store, a lot of it just mix with sum of that turbo yeast and bam just age it in plastic jugs -- penneys for cheep alcky.

Back on subject it would cost me about $1 a pound for bulk apples - maybe if I searched around I could find some fore less, but also having a variety of in the mix is a plus. So for 50 gal of juice I estimate 700 lbs of apples so $700 plus the cost to rent a crusher and press.
Most of the U-pick places around here are more than $1 per pound, So yes the true price might be $250 a gal - more if you add in the cost of the barrel.

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:12 pm

IMG_5456.JPG
a happy ferment
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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by goose eye » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:36 am

Round here if you know the folks you can get cider for .75 to 1.75 but they make you be there so they ain't got barrels of cider sittin around.
Same orchard will sale 40 bushel box's for 100.00.
Then you take it to the press an they will to squeeze a barrel for $35 to $50 a barrel.
But that is around here.

Save your hot slopes there a lot of flavor left.
Make all grain or get a couple sacks of rye an
add suger.

So I'm tole

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:39 am

Washington state produces 60% of the nations apple supply but around here you can't even get drops for 6 cents a pound much less get them pressed for free. I can get them for 16 cents a pound if I buy a 1,000 pound bin which would get me about 62gallons of juice. There is an orchard around here somewhere that will let you use their processing equipment for free even if you bring your own apples. The drawback is you have to have a truck and time to pick up the apples, take them to the press and process them. You might be able to do that in a day but maybe not, maybe it takes a whole weekend, so it comes down to what your time is worth. When I do the math (I wish I hadn't) it comes out that I would have less time involved if I worked overtime and bought the juice even at $10 a gallon. I know for some people it's worth it to to take the time to do it themselves and personally I like doing it myself but it's time consuming which can be very costly.

Plus $250 a gallon comes to $40 a bottle which is the equivalent of a low end Calvados if you bought it.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by goose eye » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:53 am

Somewhere round there they makein bootleg likker.
Might be a small market or not don't know but it's there with all them apples. Have y'all tried Apple juice or vinegar factory. Vinegar don't get there vinegar.
Sure they got seconds or what ever it called. Get you 10 5 gal buckets.
Go to farmers market an just talk. Bunch of sellers is middleman but some is producers.
You know someone that knows someone. Just got to tread lightly an have time.

Yup. Ain't none of my business just writein for thems that
mite be readin

So I'm tole

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:10 pm

The state that I live in is also the state that produces the most apples in the USA, but the prices for fruit are also some of the highest in the country. As cranky mentioned it is possible to pick up a 1000 LBS crate of them (all the same verity no mix) for about $160, factor in at least for me a truck rental and about 400 miles of driving, rental of a crusher and press, and my labor (even at min wage that would add up). If I was unemployed maybe I could justify the labor cost. Now if we really wan to start adding things up - the city that I live in has one of the highest housing costs in the nation, better add a couple of hundred $'s just for the storage space for my fermentor LOL

Maybe someday when I retire I can move into a slower lifestyle somewhere near cheap apples and rent and make the same if not better quality brandy at a lower shell out of dollars, for now this is what I have and can do.
Thank god apple season is only one run for me, I'll be getting back into some all grain and all sugar after I'm done with this run.

Be safe
OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:38 pm

And on a side note it's great to come home and smell the wonderful aroma of apple fermenting.

Be safe
OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:32 am

Oldvine Zin wrote:And on a side note it's great to come home and smell the wonderful aroma of apple fermenting.

Be safe
OVZ
No doubt about it, yeast love unpasteurized apple cider :D
Oldvine Zin wrote:Maybe someday when I retire I can move into a slower lifestyle somewhere near cheap apples and rent and make the same if not better quality brandy at a lower shell out of dollars, for now this is what I have and can do.
Just for the sake of accuracy I will say you do live in a place where many apples are free for the taking or asking but they also have a group called (I think) "City Fruit" that harvests unwanted fruit from around the city, they claim it is for charity but they sell the cider to local had cider producers, I don't know how much charity is actually involved. But in the past few years I have only bought apples when testing the chopper in the off season and my wife likes Opal apples so I buy them for her to eat, other than that they just cost me time, which is often very lacking and precious.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by goose eye » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:03 am

Cranky is they 503 or such .
do they take volunteers?


Might have to go to the cider folks that gets it from the 503 but foldin money talks to the right person.

So I'm tole

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:05 pm

goose eye wrote:Cranky is they 503 or such .
do they take volunteers?


Might have to go to the cider folks that gets it from the 503 but foldin money talks to the right person.

So I'm tole
I assume they must be something like that. Here is their website ( https://www.cityfruit.org/join-us/about-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ) I don't really know all that much about them other than they show up on the news every year and some of the hard cider makers produce cider from their apples or juice.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Checked out that site - cool what they are doing but it dosen't seem easy for an average person to buy their fruit.

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:07 am

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it. There are different ways of doing almost anything and you got a good mix of apples that way. Sure it's possible to get it for free with enough time but time is money and this works for you. There's nothing wrong with that. By the way my math says you will have about $26 per bottle which is cheaper than any store bought brandy around here.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by goose eye » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:18 am

Yup Ain't nothin wrong with your path.

Ole boys tend to look at thangs from a by gone time.
Didn't mean nothin by it.

Would contineue education with hot slopes if you is so inclined

So I'm tole

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:45 pm

goose eye wrote:
Would contineue education with hot slopes if you is so inclined

So I'm tole
Done a lot of gumball heads with my all grains if that's what you are talking about

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:18 pm

well almost 7 days into the ferment and it's down to negative numbers, ec118, fermaid-o, and a few oyster shells :D

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:03 pm

Transferred the fermented juice out of my big fermentor to a few smaller containers for storage. I'm taking cranky"s advise to let it rest for a few months before I run it, patience is not one of my virtues so this will be difficult for me :shock: - might have to start a shine on CROW ferment to keep my mind and hands off of the apple.
apple2018.JPG
A little over 50 gals of apple goodness :D

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by NZChris » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:15 pm

You could have a bob each way and run some early and some late.

For hard cider, you could give a demijohn a used domino or two from a whiskey to help the aging along.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:30 pm

NZChris wrote: For hard cider, you could give a demijohn a used domino or two from a whiskey to help the aging along.
Already set aside in addition to what I have for brandy a carboy for hard cider - I like your Idea for a couple of domino's added to it

OVZ

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:24 pm

My best cider to date was barrel aged in a used whiskey barrel for 4 months before bottling.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by nerdybrewer » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:01 pm

Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
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Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:08 pm

nerdybrewer wrote:Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
I personally think it's a good deal although I like the fresh pressed 3 tree blend if I were going to buy commercial. I don't think honeycrisp has enough flavor on it's own.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by nerdybrewer » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:13 pm

cranky wrote:
nerdybrewer wrote:Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
I personally think it's a good deal although I like the fresh pressed 3 tree blend if I were going to buy commercial. I don't think honeycrisp has enough flavor on it's own.
Thanks Cranky,
That is also on the same sale.
Very good info from the master of apples!
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by nerdybrewer » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:15 pm

cranky wrote:
nerdybrewer wrote:Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
I personally think it's a good deal although I like the fresh pressed 3 tree blend if I were going to buy commercial. I don't think honeycrisp has enough flavor on it's own.
Also, for "drinking cider" and hoping to get some done by Christmas or New Years (only 8 to 9 weeks away)...
Got a favorite yeast?
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by Oldvine Zin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:12 pm

nerdybrewer wrote:Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
Seeing it around here for $3 a half gal I would consider doing another batch of apple if I could get get it for less than $4 a gal. It would be a good comparison between fresh pressed unpasteurized and store bought.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:38 pm

nerdybrewer wrote:Also, for "drinking cider" and hoping to get some done by Christmas or New Years (only 8 to 9 weeks away)...
Got a favorite yeast?
My current go to yeast is 1122 but I like D-47 too, they both do well at lower temps and add a bit of fruitiness to the mix which works well for what you keep as cider. The only real problem is they make cuts a little tricky on the brandy. some people say US-05, S-04 and Nottingham are the best but I cant vouch for that.
Oldvine Zin wrote:
nerdybrewer wrote:Tree Top unfiltered AJ is on a pretty nice sale right now, what do you guys think about this for less than $4 / gallon?
Make good hard cider?
Seeing it around here for $3 a half gal I would consider doing another batch of apple if I could get get it for less than $4 a gal. It would be a good comparison between fresh pressed unpasteurized and store bought.

OVZ
Tree top frequently goes on sale at Safeway for $2 a half gallon or even less sometimes. I think as the new crop comes in they need to move inventory to make room for it. Last week or the week before Safeway put their store brand juice on sale for 79 cents a half gallon but I won't buy that because it is Chinese juice. Tree top is made in Oregon using PNW apples and I like that.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:50 am

I just loaded my safeway coupons for the week and one of them is Tree Top apple juice 64oz for $1.49 each (limit 4) So for $5.96 a person could get 2 gallons :think: I'm sitting here thinking if I had 25 accounts I could get 50 gallons for $149 :crazy:

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by nerdybrewer » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:42 am

cranky wrote:I just loaded my safeway coupons for the week and one of them is Tree Top apple juice 64oz for $1.49 each (limit 4) So for $5.96 a person could get 2 gallons :think: I'm sitting here thinking if I had 25 accounts I could get 50 gallons for $149 :crazy:
Where do you get that coupon for the Tree Top at that price?
I've got their app but I don't see that one.
Oh - also thanks for the yeast advice.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.

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Re: Apple the easier way ??

Post by cranky » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:17 am

nerdybrewer wrote:
cranky wrote:I just loaded my safeway coupons for the week and one of them is Tree Top apple juice 64oz for $1.49 each (limit 4) So for $5.96 a person could get 2 gallons :think: I'm sitting here thinking if I had 25 accounts I could get 50 gallons for $149 :crazy:
Where do you get that coupon for the Tree Top at that price?
I've got their app but I don't see that one.
Oh - also thanks for the yeast advice.
I don't use the app but it should be on there. I go to Safeway.com, log in, click the "Just for you" link then the "Coupons & deals" link and just load every coupon to my card but you can search using a key word "apple" brings up that coupon and another one for 75 cents off one bottle on "ONE (1) Bottle of Tree Top® 100% Pure Pressed Apple Cider or Apple Juice 64oz" which will bring the total for 2 gallons down to $5.21.

It also brings up one for a gallon of Chinese juice for $2.47 (limit 2) if anybody doesn't mind juice from China.

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