Hook Rum

[heartcut]

If you dilute the molasses with two times it's volume in water, stir in about 1 teaspoon sodium hydroxide (wear gloves and goggles, it eats eyes and skin) per gallon of molasses, heat to a simmer while stirring, then turn off the heat and let it slowly cool (at least an hour). When it's down to about 100degF rack the liquid off the sediment on the bottom. That should turn the propionic acid into salts and leave it in the sediment. After you make your wash, it'll probably need some acid to get the pH back down to 5.0 or wherever you prefer rum wash. The 1 teaspoon is a guess and will vary depending on how much propionic acid was put in your molasses. Lime or calcium hydroxide would probably work too, it'd take more but would be safer to handle.

[EMAB1]

Hookline could you use a backset from a sweetfeed run as dunder for a rum wash, do you think it would work? I am going to run sweetfeed tomrow and would like to start a rum wash.

[LWTCS]

Work ??
yes it will "work" .
but likely be more of a rumski varient. Rum snob gonna say it ain't rum.
To hell with the rum snobs I say.

[EMAB1]

Thanks for the quick reply Lwtcs , as for the rummys dam the torpedoes full steam ahead. thx Emab1

[Mook]

Just finished my first stripping run with this recipe. I scaled it down to about 2.5 gallons to better fit my smaller pot still. I am pleased with the product so far and am guessing at 1 stripping run a week I will have enough accumulated to do my fist spirit run in 2 more weeks. Cant wait! and bravo on a super simple recipe that produces a good product.
I find that the fermet takes about 4 days which gives me one and a half days to let it sit post fermet then rack and one and half days, sitting again in another bin. makes it a very convenient once a week job.
excited to see how the recycled dunder or backset adds to the complexity of the rum.

[MR-E]

Work ??
yes it will "work" .
but likely be more of a rumski varient. Rum snob gonna say it ain't rum.
To hell with the rum snobs I say.

Them's fightin words Mr

[King Of Hearts]

If you dilute the molasses with two times it's volume in water, stir in about 1 teaspoon sodium hydroxide (wear gloves and goggles, it eats eyes and skin) per gallon of molasses, heat to a simmer while stirring, then turn off the heat and let it slowly cool (at least an hour). When it's down to about 100degF rack the liquid off the sediment on the bottom. That should turn the propionic acid into salts and leave it in the sediment. After you make your wash, it'll probably need some acid to get the pH back down to 5.0 or wherever you prefer rum wash. The 1 teaspoon is a guess and will vary depending on how much propionic acid was put in your molasses. Lime or calcium hydroxide would probably work too, it'd take more but would be safer to handle.

Thanks, where did you get this info?

[LWTCS]

Yeah ,,,,see I gotta firm up the skinny on this propionic/propanoic acid addition thing as propanoic acid is naturally occurring and does not need to be added.
60% molasses may have less propanoic acid on a ppm basis than say 50%.

Perhaps once the molasses is sold the second party adds a preservative to accomodate the addition of grains and such?? But molasses on its own accord needs no preservatives with a lid that has a good lock down seal. Shelf life is very very long.

[LWTCS]

My chemist friends from the sugar refinery have remained largely ambivalent about propanoic / propionic acid as they have stated that this constituent has not affected their ability to render sucrose and therefore not affected the bottom line of the plant. So they have really not even thought about propanoic acid till I started asking them about it...

Hector has promised me that he would offer a comment after he evaluates the wikki info that I supplied him with.

[King Of Hearts]

My chemist friends from the sugar refinery have remained largely ambivalent about propanoic / propionic acid as they have stated that this constituent has not affected their ability to render sucrose and therefore not affected the bottom line of the plant. So they have really not even thought about propanoic acid till I started asking them about it...

Hector has promised me that he would offer a comment after he evaluates the wikki info that I supplied him with.

From what Ive read its use is because of sulphur? Mine is unsulphured from Groeb farms in Michigan. Other people report little or no sediment after clarifying. Also my ph meter is old and needs a new probe, Im making 10 gals, how much acid blend should I use?

[LWTCS]

The worst enemy at the refinery is time and heat. Seems sulfur gets added to prolong the time it takes for the syrup to spoil before they can get it cooking? I'll firm that up with my chemist friends....I don't think they use that sulfer trick at the refinery where they work......

[LWTCS]

Ok, so Propionic / Propanoic acid may very well be naturally present within the juice in a very small amount, but Hector believes that the real presents of this constituent is likely due to the addition of propanol during the "strike" or sucrose extraction stage. A finely ground powered sugar is suspended in 3 to 5 gallon bucket with propanol (sugar will not disolve in Propanol/alcohol). The suspended sugar mix is added to the centrifugal vacume pan as part of the process that renders/separates the sucrose away from the rest of the constituents within the cane juice...This material (Propanol) always ends up in the byproduct (molasses) as the centrifugal separation only extracts/renders sucrose after all 3 "strikes" have been completed. Shortly there after the propanol within the remaining molasses oxidizes and is likely transformed to propanoic acid.

The addition of Sulfur or Sulfur dioxide appears to be part of the floccing technique used to clarify the cane juice prior to adding the raw material to the centrifugal separation stage. Much of this material settles to the bottom of the clarification tanks but some likely stays suspended,,,,,especially with ever present production deadlines one assumes.

Hector's (former) outfit does not use sulfur to clarify . They use lime.

So I'm still struggling with why these constituents within a bucket of molasses are being identified as preservatives rather than by products created due to the refining process.....even tho they do preserve?

They tell me a bucket of (their) molasses has an indefinite shelf life if ya keep the lid locked down...They have no idea why anyone would add a preservative as such.

[Dnderhead]

sulfur dioxide is used when producing sugar for unripe cane.
propionic acid is caused by bacteria so it mite not be something added. (see below)
propionic acid produced by
propionibacteria strains was studied using a basal medium with sugarcane molasses

[LWTCS]

sulfur dioxide is used when producing sugar for unripe cane.

Yes, yes, I remember him telling me about that.
The past few years down here we have had some freezing weather that forces the sugar company to harvest / salvage what they can before the cane would be typically ready. And Hector did say that they use the sulfer for the unripened cane.
A measure they use to avoid a catastrophic loss to the crop.

Making more sense now....

[heartcut]

If you dilute the molasses with two times it's volume in water, stir in about 1 teaspoon sodium hydroxide (wear gloves and goggles, it eats eyes and skin) per gallon of molasses, heat to a simmer while stirring, then turn off the heat and let it slowly cool (at least an hour). When it's down to about 100degF rack the liquid off the sediment on the bottom. That should turn the propionic acid into salts and leave it in the sediment. After you make your wash, it'll probably need some acid to get the pH back down to 5.0 or wherever you prefer rum wash. The 1 teaspoon is a guess and will vary depending on how much propionic acid was put in your molasses. Lime or calcium hydroxide would probably work too, it'd take more but would be safer to handle.

Thanks, where did you get this info?

I read the procedure to be used with salt on one of these threads, figured NaOH would be a lot more effective and tried it. Worked great for the fermentation, but there was sulphur enough to taste in the product. If you find an animal grade molasses that just has propionic acid added, this would be effective, but there doesn't seem to be too many rules about labeling on feed grade stuff. I stick to food grade molasses nowadays and mumble about the price a little.

[Sungy]

Wow
Just made up a batch and is it ever active. First one I have had this with.

Looks like the yeasties are Happy.
Good thing I keep lookin in on them. The airlocks where full of wash and the lids where about to puke all over my fermentor box. They started at 29'C and spiked at 33'C in 1.5 hours.

[Sungy]

Ok I got a question for ya. The directions say to

When fermenting has finished, wait another 2 days, then rack the wash into another container. Wait another 2-3 days (or longer if you want), then rack into the still for the stripping (low wines) run. Take it out to 98 ºC, or 20% abv, (go further if you want, some go to 99 ºC, or 10%).

Recycle dunder back into next ferment while still hot.

So does this mean that I Rack off the fermented liquid into a new container. Then let it sit for 2 days to settle then re rack into the boiler.
If I do this wont the yeasties die in the 2 days it takes for it to settle and be re racked into the boiler to run it so I can get the backset to put into the original fermentor for the next batch?

[King Of Hearts]

Ok I got a question for ya. The directions say to

When fermenting has finished, wait another 2 days, then rack the wash into another container. Wait another 2-3 days (or longer if you want), then rack into the still for the stripping (low wines) run. Take it out to 98 ºC, or 20% abv, (go further if you want, some go to 99 ºC, or 10%).

Recycle dunder back into next ferment while still hot.

So does this mean that I Rack off the fermented liquid into a new container. Then let it sit for 2 days to settle then re rack into the boiler.
If I do this wont the yeasties die in the 2 days it takes for it to settle and be re racked into the boiler to run it so I can get the backset to put into the original fermentor for the next batch?

So does this mean that I Rack off the fermented liquid into a new container. Then let it sit for 2 days to settle then re rack into the boiler? Yes.

You don't want live yeast from this batch for next batch if your switching yeast, just use it for nutrient after you boil it for 10 min.

[Sungy]

You don't want live yeast from this batch for next batch if your switching yeast, just use it for nutrient after you boil it for 10 min.

I thought for the second generation the yeast was supposed to wake up...and away it goes again with new molasses and sugar ect.

[King Of Hearts]

You don't want live yeast from this batch for next batch if your switching yeast, just use it for nutrient after you boil it for 10 min.

I thought for the second generation the yeast was supposed to wake up...and away it goes again with new molasses and sugar ect.

I thought you were Alex who wanted to switch yeast, yes if you want to reuse it that's fine.

[Sungy]

is there any thing I have to do to keep the little fellers alive till the backset comes out of the boiler ( 2-3 days).

[King Of Hearts]

is there any thing I have to do to keep the little fellers alive till the backset comes out of the boiler ( 2-3 days).

I keep mine in the fridge, keep some liquid on top, when ready take it out to warm up room temp, about 3 hours. you can keep yeast 2 weeks like this or more if you wash it with sterile water up to a month.

[Brendan]

G'day Hook,

Do you or anyone else have any good tips for buying blackstrap molasses in Australia.

The best I have found is 600g jars for about $6 or $7...On looking up a google search, 7L of molasses is equal to just over 10kg in weight equalling over $70 for the 60L batch...

Any advice would be much appreciated

[john442]

Just but on a batch tonite, It is bubbling away nicely.

[HookLine]

Brendan...

I live in a rural area and get mine from the local stock feed suppliers.

$40-50 for 20 litres of blackstrap. Makes 3 x 60 litre ferments with approx 50:50 molasses and raw sugar.

Also, in case I have not mentioned before, I have reduced the amount of yeast I use, down to about 90 grams. Means I get 3 ferments from one 280 g pack of Lowans baking yeast, from Coles or Woolies. Works fine.

[Brendan]

Thanks Hook, I might have to head out of town then I have been in touch with some rural suppliers, so that definitely looks to be the go...

I am planning to do a rum on a wine/distillers? yeast (Danstil-A) that I have been using for a while...hope that will be okay for it? I haven't used the Lowans since the first couple of times I prepared a wash...

[HookLine]

I am planning to do a rum on a wine/distillers? yeast (Danstil-A) that I have been using for a while...hope that will be okay for it? I haven't used the Lowans since the first couple of times I prepared a wash...

I have only ever used bakers yeast for rum. But don't be afraid to experiment. Let us know how it goes.

[Saltbush Bill]

sulfur dioxide is used when producing sugar for unripe cane.

I have little understanding of the refining processes of sugar...I have however worked at times on sugar cane farms.
From my understanding no farmer in his right mind will send cane to the "mill" that is under ripe............under ripe cane is going to have a very low sugar content and there for not be profitable.

[LWTCS]

I have little understanding of the refining processes of sugar...I have however worked at times on sugar cane farms.
From my understanding no farmer in his right mind will send cane to the "mill" that is under ripe............under ripe cane is going to have a very low sugar content and there for not be profitable.

+1
The farmers get paid based on sugar content within,,, but there are circumstances...
As mentioned,,,in my area we get the odd freeze before the cane is ready. And the hurricanes can throw a wrench into to works also.....

Not to mention that the sulpher dioxide techniques are also part of the whitening / bleaching process that seems to be so important to the market place......Dunno why?

Though I don't think all refineries use the Sulpher trick to whiten...

[CuWhistle]

I've bought some stock feed grade molasses from the local produce store (NSW Australia) and it is sold in recycled milk containers for $2.00 a litre. No label or list of additives, if any, and when I asked the girl just said, "it's molasses". Can't blame her for not knowing I suppose.

Anyway I want to try clarifying and I'm good with the process but my question is this. Once clarified, allowed to stand and cool then racked off, how long can I keep it in a sealed bucket before I would need to use it? Obviously not years but I imagine a few weeks or so should be good. Reason being I'd like to clarify a fair bit up front then use it as required to do several washes / runs. I don't want to have to boil, stand, rack every other week.