3rd sugar wash a charm?????

[Guest]

Hi everyone:

I guess I was wrong in thinking that making a sugar wash would be the as easy as making wine.
first attempt stuck at 8% but still made great spirit.
second attempt barley even started before it became worm food.
I have my ideas why I was "unsuccesfull" on the first two attempts and am working on attempt #3.
here is where I am at

I boiled 1-1/2 litres more or less of water
added 2kg of sugar
156 ml of tomato paste
2 tbs lemon juice
and stirred this mixture pretty good.

while I was waiting for my water to boil I regenerated 2 pkg lavlin? 118
yeast in some warm water.

I waited untill the temp of the mash got down below 30 degrees before I pitched the yeast into it.

Tomorrow I plan on making a sugar syrup with 3 more kg of sugar and another 156 ml tomato paste and putting this into a primary fermenter (after it has cooled) along with my "starter" and topping up to 18 litres.

Some concerns I have are:
Will it work?
Does it matter how long for rehydration? (it took a while for my mash to cool)
Is there too much lemon in my starter?

Any help or suggestions welcome.
thanks
Jim

[Jim]

I posted above then decided to register.

[The Chemist]

I'm sorry to say it, Jim, but it sounds like you're having problems with sanitation. You can never get this business "sterile", but you have to try.

Before you start another wash, sanitize EVERYTHING you're using with a weak bleach solution (two tablespoons per gallon, let it soak for at least thirty minutes). Personally, I'd leave out the tomato paste (I know some swear by it, but I prefer "yeast nutrient"). I'd also leave out the lemon juice. The yeast will correct the pH, you don't have to coddle them (Citric acid is a good thing, though, just don't overdo it).

I'm quite interested in how things go for you--this is the kind of problem that I love on this forum! Good Luck!

[Jim]

I am not saying you are wrong but.....I have made quite alot of wine in the past couple years and have never had an issue with sanitation, I use the same pink cleanser that I use when I am making my wine.

From your reply I gather that what I have brewing and the method that I used should be satisfactory and this new batch started bubbling in the airlock today so I guess time will tell.
It is nice to have a resource like this fourm to ask questions about somthing that is so rewarding, exciting, intresting, and at the same time frustrating.....I wonder if there is a fourm like this to help me figure out my wife

Thanks for your reply
Jim

[linw]

.....I wonder if there is a fourm like this to help me figure out my wife

Jim

If there was such a forum you would never get on as the queue would stretch for miles!!

[KatoFong]

Chemist:

What's the proportion of yeast nutrient per liter?

[Pieterpost]

well personally I would use less tomato paste. Also I would measure the pH.

personally I use for 18 liters:

4,5 kg sugar
2 cans of tomatopaste (about 130 ml)
2-3 three spoons of citric acid (adjust pH until 4,5)
bakersyeast (just use 1 packet or get some fresh from you bakers)

If I were you i would also not boil the water. If you boil water then you remove all of the oxygen which is present there. It's good to have oxygen in the water when you start for the yeast to mulitply. I use water straight from the tap and never have trouble with infections !

Don't expect to get 14%! This takes a long while and is an extreme for bakers yeast. I don't think many people ever reach that! When you are satisfied with less (I think I get about 12%), your fermentations will be finished much sooner!

[rectifier]

If I were you I would maybe start with some small scale washes to get the hang of it. I blew 2 washes before I hit on a good one... but doing 4L washes it was a lot easier to toss the shitty ones and start again. The one I used that worked well is from the rum wash section of sugar-washes. Molasses is a very good nutrient.

I have a light rum/neutral spirit recipe that is working very well for me. I thought I would pass it on.

15 lbs (6.8 kg) white sugar
24 oz molasses
5 tbsp yeast nutrient
2 tsp yeast energizer (DAP)
yeast starter (see below)

To make yeast starter: Dissolve 4 tbsp Red Star brand Distiller's Yeast in 3 cups water at 93-97 degrees F (34-36C). Add 1 tbsp molasses, and 2 tbsp white sugar. Stir or shake until disolved and cover. Let sit, shaking occasionally for 1/2 hour to 1 hour.

Heat 1 gal (4L) water to almost boiling, pour into fermentor. Disolve 10 lbs sugar, molasses, yeast nutrient, and yeast energizer into hot water. Top up to 6 Gallons (23L) with cold water keeping temperature at 85- 89 degrees F (29-32C). Stir until well mixed. Pour yeast starter into fermentor and stir briskly. Put lid and air lock on fermentor.

After a few minutes, the ailock should start bubbling briskly. Keep wort at 85 degrees F (29C) for the duration of fermentation.

After 3 days, stir in remaining sugar. Flavor and aroma of final spirit is that of a very light rum.

I scaled it back to 4L and kept it nice and warm at 27 degrees C in a bucket. Ran fully in a little over a week, should be around 18% in theory. The only difference was that I used EC-1118 instead of Red Star, you probably already have some around if you make wine. Also, I waited until the potential % dropped back down to 5 before adding more, rather than waiting 3 days.

[Jim]

Thanks for all your replies.

Pieterpost
I will not boil water on my next run and settle on a lower percent for the time being.

Rectifier
When I started making wine I made smaller batches untill I got the hang of it It does not seem like it is as easy to ferment out a sugar water mixture so you are probably right I should start at the beginning and make smaller washes untill I get good at it, I think I will try your light rum wash on the weekend.

How do you maintain your wash temp? a heater band?

Linw
You are also right......now you see why I am so desperate to get a good wash.

2 days and still bubblin.
Jim

[rectifier]

Jim, I'm coming from wine to distilling too... Juice loves to ferment, sugar on the other hand is quite a bit needier.

Maintaining temps is really cheap and easy actually. All you need is a big bucket and a fish tank heater ($10 for a cheap one is all you need).

Put your carboy in a bucket full enough of warmish tap water, get the fish heater in there and turn the temp up while checking it with a digital thermometer.
Don't just crank it up and walk off until you are sure it has equilibriated (heater light off, water the temperature you want) or you could come back to 40 C water and ruined wash.

From what I've read, around 27 C is optimal, below that you are going slower than neccesary, above that you are increasing production of nasty congeners.

Best of luck!

[The Chemist]

Jim, I'm coming from wine to distilling too... Juice loves to ferment, sugar on the other hand is quite a bit needier.

You're right there,rectifier. Juice has all the other nutrients that yeast needs, sugar doesn't. This is where and why people start adding tomato paste to supply the necessary amino acids, lipids, etc. (I prefer to use "yeast nutrient" sold in homebrew stores, but not everyone has one nearby. I don't think I ever resort to Miracle-Gro.)

[Jim]

3rd day and still bubblin.

I will have to get the heater soon as I am waiting for my rum starter to cool right now

you wrote

[quote="rectifier"]

Put your carboy in a bucket full enough of warmish tap water, get the fish heater in there and turn the temp up while checking it with a digital thermometer.

do you not use a primary fermenter?

I originaly thought I would end up making rye whisky when I got good at this home distillation stuff but this ceaser made with really clean vodka tastes pretty good, I guess I will have to keep an open mind about what I am going to brew.

Jim

[Uncle Remus]

Jim,
I am a firm believer in turbo yeasts. I have been using the 8kg Turbo and the 48hr Turbo both with excellent results. All of my washes so far have not been under 15%. It's really a no brainer with these yeasts.

I ferment at room temp about 20deg C and let them go for 2 weeks. I know you can push them and achieve the same alc%/vol in just a few days, but if you let it take it's time and clear up nicely you get a much better final product.

A few weeks ago a tried splitting a package of turbo 48 and made 2- 25 litre washes out of one package. I used half the sugar in each fermenter to start with (4kg per 25 litre fermenter) and added a handful of raisins and a half a can of tomatoe paste to each wash. After a few days (when the sugar was almost used up) I added another 4 kg to each wash. At the end of 3 weeks I had 2-25 ltr washes with over 15% alc/vol.

Good Luck!!

[Guest]

Good deal remus...thanks for the technique.

[Arnie_sla]

Uncle Remus,

I do amost exactly the same as you but I add all the sugar at the start. But I don't use the rasins. Haven't had any problems with adding all the sugar at the start.

Splitting the turbo pack and adding the tomatoe paste works fine and you basically get twice the product at almost the same cost, as the tomatoe paste is as "cheap as chips". Much less than buying two turbo packs.

I also think the amount of methanol production is reduced by not using the total turbo pack in one wash and adding tomatoe paste instead. I still collect and discard the first 100mils or so of my distillation, but it doesn't burn my nose anymore when I sniff it, (just for testing) as it did when I used the total turbo pack.

Arnie

[Guest]

I was thinking of trying a Turbo and probably will but I have to work up to ordering on line.....I have orderd other things online before and not had problems but I still don't feel very comforatable doing it.

after this past weekend I am going to need somthing to ferment out fast or I am going to get thirsty waiting for my sugar wash

Jim

[Uncle Remus]

http://www.brewhaus.ca onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow is a good place to order from if your in Canada. I've always recieved my orders by the next business day.

[Jim]

Success!

The third time is a charm I have finally got a sugar wash to ferment right out. I also made a 4 litre rum wash that made it,
Not only that I made that 23 litre rum wash this morning and it started to ferment within 3 hours!
Chemist you might have been right about sterilization, I have always been carefull but I guess I might have missed something.

thanks everybody for all your help and suggestions I now have enough confidence to try to make a nice rye whisky.....soon......I guess.
Jim