Hello guys,
I have a “Valved Reflux Still and I am toying with the idea of using an 11” Electric Immersion Water Heater for a Domestic Hot Water Cylinder. A normal foam insulated copper Domestic Hot Water Cylinder as used here in the UK.
For the still boiler heating element, like this Immersion Heater at this web link http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 7&ts=99903#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Element Specifications
1. 240 volt mains (using a standard UK 13 amp fused 3 pin plug)
2. 2 Kw or 2000 watts.
3.
4. A Thermostatically controlled removable probe in the element that goes from 30C to 80C
5. Over heat or run dry cut out switch is standard fitment on all these elements (they have a reset button in the top somewhere)
I could get a 3Kw element, but 13amp is only good for a 2Kw element and is the biggest safe fuse for electric wall outlets here in the UK
I can cut/hack out a hot water cylinder boss from an old hot water cylinder no problem there, and silver solder it to my 8 gallon/40 litre steel boiler/drum
But I know from experience that the thermostat will just cycle in and out at the 80C setting. (On and off)
Is there an electric gizmo that is commercially available that I can get that will let me take that temperature up to the 100C and do I need to take it that high?
I know the alcohol boils at 87.5C? (I think)
But I also know that from using the Amazing Plastic Still at this link. http://www.amazingstill.com/nl/use.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow that ethanol will evaporate at a lower temperature all be it at a slower rate.
Would this adversely affect the reflux in the main reflux column from working at its optimum? (I n other words going too bloody slow)
Or should I try to get the electric gizmo (if one is available)?
Or cut out the supplied thermostat altogether and run the element straight via the electric gizmo
I know also from reading the forum that the slower you take off you distillate the more it will reflux so the stronger it will be.
So do I.
a. Go for the electric gizmo and distil at the faster rate?
b. Or use the existing thermostat and distil at the slower stronger rate?
What do you think guys?
Geoff
Immersion Heater Thermostat or What?
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rkidtech
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Brett
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from when i looked here in the UK u should be able to find 2 kw n 3 kw elements for boilers/kettles, hot water systems, even dishwashers and washing machines they range from a tenner up to maybe twenty quid and many of them come without the thermostat control built in them.
i think i just did a UK search on google for kettle elements, theres many places listed that sell an array elements and these places sell them for most appliances
i think i just did a UK search on google for kettle elements, theres many places listed that sell an array elements and these places sell them for most appliances
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rkidtech
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Hi theholymackerel and Brett,
I can get an element to run constant no bother at all. It’s the throttling mechanism of the electric current/amps to keep it at a pre-set column temperature that I’m trying to get my head round. I’m only an ex-plumber with basic electric skills. I can follow an electric diagram to wire up a circulating pump or central heating timer clock, but after that I’m on virgin territory
Also Brett any I can get any number of electric kettles elements/washing machine/immersion heater elements etc. that will heat the wash. (I even have a few new 11" immersion heater element in boxes that I could use left over from my plumbing days) As I said above, it’s the throttling mechanism of the electric current/amps to keep it at a pre-set column temperature that i'm trying to source. I’m sure a burst-fire-controller would do the job of controlling the element if I knew what a burst-fire-controller was. What about a heavy duty light dimmer switch or even an ordinary one. Would that do the job?
I can get an element to run constant no bother at all. It’s the throttling mechanism of the electric current/amps to keep it at a pre-set column temperature that I’m trying to get my head round. I’m only an ex-plumber with basic electric skills. I can follow an electric diagram to wire up a circulating pump or central heating timer clock, but after that I’m on virgin territory
Also Brett any I can get any number of electric kettles elements/washing machine/immersion heater elements etc. that will heat the wash. (I even have a few new 11" immersion heater element in boxes that I could use left over from my plumbing days) As I said above, it’s the throttling mechanism of the electric current/amps to keep it at a pre-set column temperature that i'm trying to source. I’m sure a burst-fire-controller would do the job of controlling the element if I knew what a burst-fire-controller was. What about a heavy duty light dimmer switch or even an ordinary one. Would that do the job?
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linw
- Swill Maker
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- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:10 am
- Location: Wellington, NZ
You don't control the head temp with the boiler power. Read some more on this.
For the boiler you want high power to get it to boil then you want a lower power for the run. You say you can only run 2000W so that is what you are stuck with for the heat-up phase.
For the lower power run phase you will need around 750-850W. Just enough for a roiling boil. Don't even think of a thermostat as THM says. You could use a burst fire controller (heavy duty light dimmer type of controller) to knock back the wattage or you can get creative with the use of two elements.
For example, I use a 1600W and a 1700W element in parallel (3300W) to get to the boil and then re-plug them in series to give 825W for the run. Simple and works fine.
If you could find a 1600W (try an older style jug element) and an 800W element you could use both to heat (10 amps) and the 800 for the run.
Good luck.
For the boiler you want high power to get it to boil then you want a lower power for the run. You say you can only run 2000W so that is what you are stuck with for the heat-up phase.
For the lower power run phase you will need around 750-850W. Just enough for a roiling boil. Don't even think of a thermostat as THM says. You could use a burst fire controller (heavy duty light dimmer type of controller) to knock back the wattage or you can get creative with the use of two elements.
For example, I use a 1600W and a 1700W element in parallel (3300W) to get to the boil and then re-plug them in series to give 825W for the run. Simple and works fine.
If you could find a 1600W (try an older style jug element) and an 800W element you could use both to heat (10 amps) and the 800 for the run.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Lindsay.
Lindsay.
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rkidtech
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- Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 12:20 am
Eurka
Hi Lindsay,
That’s exactly what I needed to know. Thank you, brilliant. I thought that the still boiler would react the same way an electric kettle does here in the UK, when the flipping thing gets boiling it keeps boiling and going like crazy until you it switch off manually or it knocks off automatically
Here in UK and Europe I think we are spoilt, where as electric power is concerned. (I don’t mean having a mains supply. I mean the higher voltage and amperage supply, apart from killing you quicker if you get an electric shock)
On the few trips I've made to the U.S. to my brother’s house in South Carolina, I was struck by the fact that when I wanted to heat water for some tea/coffee it was the ubiquitous gas powered whistling kettle. I wasn’t long about mentioning this to my brother and said “Why don’t you get an electric kettle” He told me the guy in the store looked at him funny when he asks for one, and was told that everyone uses gas. The store owner didn’t even know where he could get one even if he was to try and order one. So my brother just gave in and said, “Ah well, when Rome do as the Romans do”
So we thought about it and tried to nail the reason down. Now I’m sure you guys are gonna correct me and please feel free to do so, (I‘ve got broad shoulders I can take it)
But the only reason we could think of is: - In Europe most of the electric mains supplies range from is 220-240volts approximately, it varies from country to country. And in the U.S. its 110 volts and there in lies our answer we think.
The heat up time for a pint of water at 240 volts, the UK mains supply. (With a European friendly kettle, rated between 220volts- 240 volts and at 2000watt-2400watt respectively) is 1 minute 15 seconds. I know I just made myself a cuppa’ tea, and proceeded to pour boiling water all over the work surface checking the wattage on the bottom. Hmmm I wonder about my sanity sometimes.
Anyway, now I would assume, me not being an electrician, the same amount of water would take significantly longer to heat at 110 volts and at lower amperage. And I also assume a gas kettle would heat quicker, hence all the water for coffee/tea making is nearly all heated by gas. Now that’s the only reason I can come up with. Yes/no?
Right now, I will have 5 gallons/25 litres of wash, and armed with that knowledge I can steal the caravan kettle that has a 240 volt 850 watt element (It has low wattage /amps for caravan parks. Even that sometimes trips the fuse box in the caravan park plug-in point.) And use an ordinary 240 volt 2400 watt house kettle element. And have them both fitted and set up and plugged in separately. Use the two for fast heat up and just unplug the 2400watt one, and keep it bubbling away with the 850 watt element. This is the “KISS” principle in action, brilliant.
Thanks guys for all your help, you just saved me a packet. Have drink on me YEAHHHHH !!!!!!!!
Geoff
That’s exactly what I needed to know. Thank you, brilliant. I thought that the still boiler would react the same way an electric kettle does here in the UK, when the flipping thing gets boiling it keeps boiling and going like crazy until you it switch off manually or it knocks off automatically
Here in UK and Europe I think we are spoilt, where as electric power is concerned. (I don’t mean having a mains supply. I mean the higher voltage and amperage supply, apart from killing you quicker if you get an electric shock)
On the few trips I've made to the U.S. to my brother’s house in South Carolina, I was struck by the fact that when I wanted to heat water for some tea/coffee it was the ubiquitous gas powered whistling kettle. I wasn’t long about mentioning this to my brother and said “Why don’t you get an electric kettle” He told me the guy in the store looked at him funny when he asks for one, and was told that everyone uses gas. The store owner didn’t even know where he could get one even if he was to try and order one. So my brother just gave in and said, “Ah well, when Rome do as the Romans do”
So we thought about it and tried to nail the reason down. Now I’m sure you guys are gonna correct me and please feel free to do so, (I‘ve got broad shoulders I can take it)
But the only reason we could think of is: - In Europe most of the electric mains supplies range from is 220-240volts approximately, it varies from country to country. And in the U.S. its 110 volts and there in lies our answer we think.
The heat up time for a pint of water at 240 volts, the UK mains supply. (With a European friendly kettle, rated between 220volts- 240 volts and at 2000watt-2400watt respectively) is 1 minute 15 seconds. I know I just made myself a cuppa’ tea, and proceeded to pour boiling water all over the work surface checking the wattage on the bottom. Hmmm I wonder about my sanity sometimes.
Anyway, now I would assume, me not being an electrician, the same amount of water would take significantly longer to heat at 110 volts and at lower amperage. And I also assume a gas kettle would heat quicker, hence all the water for coffee/tea making is nearly all heated by gas. Now that’s the only reason I can come up with. Yes/no?
Right now, I will have 5 gallons/25 litres of wash, and armed with that knowledge I can steal the caravan kettle that has a 240 volt 850 watt element (It has low wattage /amps for caravan parks. Even that sometimes trips the fuse box in the caravan park plug-in point.) And use an ordinary 240 volt 2400 watt house kettle element. And have them both fitted and set up and plugged in separately. Use the two for fast heat up and just unplug the 2400watt one, and keep it bubbling away with the 850 watt element. This is the “KISS” principle in action, brilliant.
Thanks guys for all your help, you just saved me a packet. Have drink on me YEAHHHHH !!!!!!!!
Geoff