cartouche
07/19/04 04:52 PM
subject: charring
What is the purpose of charring oak ?
Are the individual staves being charred before assembly ?
I am thinkin of building a barrel, I would make it straight for simplicity, like a vat closed at both ends.
It should be interesting.
C.
theholymackerel
07/19/04 05:26 PM
Re: charring [re: cartouche]
Charred oak will somewhat smooth a rough drink. It works like charcoal or activated carbon, but not as well. If ya make a good whiskey/rum/etc to start with ya can use virgin oak which tastes better.
The inside of the barrel is charred after the barrel is assembled.
A long slow technological evolution created the barrel as we know it today... Its shape and the bands cause a barrel to seal after becomin' wet. If ya make what's basically an oak box and try to use it as a barrel yer probably gonna have leaks and not be too happy with it.
I wish ya luck
Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody.
-Mark Twain
Yttrium
07/19/04 06:27 PM
Re: charring [re: theholymackerel]
Charring a barrel decomposes some of the compounds in the wood so you get a different flavor from the finished product.
Fourway
07/19/04 08:52 PM
Re: charring [re: cartouche]
The history that wound up with american whiskeys being mandated by law to be aged in new charred barrels is long and convoluted and not just a little bit stupid but it has as its very earliest beginnings the distillers of Pennsylvania and Kentucky using the used barrels which had been sent "out west" to them filled with salt fish and axle grease and whale oil and all manner of other yummy things... they fired out the insides of the barrels and sometimes gave them a scrape to get some of the residual flavor out of them.
They were not trying to use barrels for aging. They were using whatever containers were handy... and their Scots-Irish heritage wasn't about to allow a little salt cod flavor to cheat them out of the use of a free barrel.
"Dad was a drunk with a fishing problem". --Ben Willis
cartouche
07/20/04 01:58 AM
Re: charring [re: theholymackerel]
Theholymackrel,
I was thinking more of a cilinder with stainless rings and a top and a bottom, ...heck, I built boats that didn't leak!
C.
LeftLaneCruiser
07/20/04 04:17 AM
Re: charring [re: cartouche]
Cartouche,
I really hope the making of a barrel works out for you. We tried it but it didn't work out, leaks all over. But since you have experience in boatbuilding I have good hopes..
KJH
linw
07/20/04 05:10 AM
Re: charring [re: cartouche]
But what about all the glue and fibre glass???!!!
Fourway
07/20/04 06:12 AM
Re: charring [re: linw]
Ive done ok breaking down and reassembling barrels that were already made. I learned the hard way to number the staves and put them back together in the same order.
I started doing this because the inexpensive little mexican barrels are varnished on the outside and charred and waxed on the inside and the heads (which are often made from old furniture) sometimes have layers of old paint on them on the inside (yuck).
If you let one of those dry out you can pop the bands off (number everything) sand the wax, char, paint and varnish off and bang them back together. It's a BFO though, you need to enjoy doing fiddly puzzle work.
"Dad was a drunk with a fishing problem". --Ben Willis
theholymackerel
07/20/04 06:25 AM
Re: charring [re: linw]
LINW is right. A barrel doesn't use anythin' but expansion caused by liquid to seal. No glue, etc.
The shape of a barrel is important too... just as the shape of a boat is important. The shape of the barrel helps it to seal and makes it MUCH stronger.
I'm not tryin' to talk ya out of makin' a barrel, it's just that the shape of a barrel came about over long slow evolution. If ya change the design ya probably won't be too happy with the results.
I had a carpenter friend of mine (who wanted a challenge) try to make a barrel for me... I even bought him the hoops. After 2 months he gave up. He said makin' it all fit was next to impossible and he had real respect for coopers. Each stave has to be the exact same length, have the same curvature, and the "keystoned" stave sides (where the staves touch) all have to meet perfectly flush.
Why not just buy some barrels? You can buy small oak barrels here: http://www.1000oaksbarrel.com/index.html
If yer buyin' more than one barrel e-mail the owner and he'll send ya a link to a different page with cheaper prices.
I wish ya luck
Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody.
-Mark Twain
Fourway
07/20/04 06:39 AM
Re: charring [re: theholymackerel]
those 1000oaks barrels are the mexican ones that I take apart and clean the lead paint, varnish, parrafin and char off of.
for slightly larger slightly cleaner barrels if you can swing the $700 minimum order have a look at http://www.thebarrelcompany.com/smaller_barrels.htm
or you can buy their barrels individually here http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product ... ductID=578
and here http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product ... pe=PRODUCT
"Dad was a drunk with a fishing problem". --Ben Willis
cartouche
07/20/04 11:46 AM
Re: charring [re: Fourway]
I am sure I can build a cylindrical barrell that doesn't leak, with no glue or chemicals ... I could buy one but it would not be the same.
I am not sure I buy the idea of using barrels that previously held salted fish or axle grease, these barrels were open, what do you do siphon out the fish !
C.
linw
07/20/04 08:27 PM
Re: charring [re: cartouche]
Must admit, the salted fish thing didn't do it for me, either!! Can't think of even one virtue of mixing your grog with old fish (or grease!).