ferment problems

[Grayson_Stewart]

Brought over from olfd forum

monk
(stranger)
05/08/04 04:47 PM

ferment problems

hi there im resonbly new to this game and would be thankfull if anyone would be able to help.!!! the problem is i can never seem to get a hydromter reading of 1.000 or less.i have payed attention to tempreture before i put my turbo in and right through to when it stops bubbling some times 14 days or more. has anyone any sugestions ? thank you. and to all that contribute to this stilling chat room i am lerning a lot . keep up the good work.

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Brain_Solenoid
(stranger)
05/08/04 07:40 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: monk]

It really depends on what you're fermenting. Molasses has some non-fermentable solids in suspension that would make it tough to hit 1.000 consistantly. Though I have come close to 1.000 in my molasses/sugar washes for Rum, I have never gone below it. For my Rum washes which start around 1.138 or so, I end up around 1.010 - 1.012. I'm sure somebody could say they get lower, but I'm pretty certain of my process.

Malt washes for Single Malts also contain a lot of proteins and non-fermentable sugars (Rafinose, being but one that is fermentable by Lager yeasts but not it's Ale cousins). You would not expect to get even near 1.000 for an all malt based wash and a higher gravity. For gravities between 1.080 - 1.100, expect to hit, at best, between the 1.016 - 1.025 range, depending on mash profiles and temperatures.

Dextrines, another complex sugar group, will not break down in fermentation either. In fact, many folks mistakingly make a wash from 100% Crystal or Dextrine Malt and wonder why the terminal gravities are so high. These malts are additive malts to give color/flavor or body, as is the case of the Dex malt, and are intentionally undermodified to Produce a lot of body with fewer fermentables.

Also, I would ask if you are aerating your wash prior to pitching the yeast? A $10 (U.S.) aquarium aeration pump and a bubbler stone works wonders at the beginning at the time of yeast pitch. I use a small Benzomatic oxygen bottle with a regulator and sintered stainless stone to get enough oxygen to help get the most population and fastest ferment I can.

What terminal gravities are you reading?

Regards,
BS

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monk
(stranger)
05/09/04 04:24 AM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Brain_Solenoid]

thank you for your help. i are only a beginner to the process of stilling and are making suger yeast mixes .i have read the web sight 1s all the way through and is going for a 2nd time i all so got the book MAKEING PURE CORN WISKEY this book is good. not read all the waay through yet.i will be going to make my first mash soon. the airation might be the go .a good start for the yeast and a good finish!! i have a airator for fish i will give it a go thankyou again.

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monk
(stranger)
05/14/04 09:15 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Brain_Solenoid]

thank you brain solenoid i have put down another wash and itroduced the fishtank pump so far it looks great i norm get about .5 -1cm thick yeast this time i recond about 2-3cm it has boomed its still early but looks promising... thanks.. monk .

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Knuklehead
(member)
05/14/04 09:59 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: monk]

Did you add anything for acidity to your was monk? I have found that if I don't add lemon juice to my was that my turbo's don't work as fast as they do if I add the lemon juice. My turbo's are usually done in 4 days fermented to 0.098 form a potential alcohol of 18% giving me a 20.6% wash. Once I forgot the acid and it took 8 days to do the same job. I ferment at 21C.

I am Canadian

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monk
(stranger)
05/15/04 02:13 AM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Knuklehead]

hi there no the only thing i do now is add a little more yeast nutrient.The first time was my last brew and i got it down to 1.00 first time ever . i used to do beer , but now i only just discoverd the still.Armed with the imformation i receved from this foram and a little knowlage from beer im still in the process of putting it into pratice .I have two fermenters going now so i will have to wait a little.any way this is how i do it..
follow the instructions to the letter on the yeast pack
as the water is cooling for the yeast (25*) i add the fish tank airator. when at 25*c add yeast and a little nutrient. close lid and manage a temp beetwen22*c and25*c thats it.

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monk
(stranger)
05/15/04 02:28 AM

Re: ferment problems new [re: monk]

yes i am jumping around sorry !

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Brain_Solenoid
(newbie)
05/15/04 10:08 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Knuklehead]

You know, I've read in all the distilling forums that a lot of folks are adding something to acidify the wash prior to fermenting. No other alcohol hobby does that.......brewing or winemaking.......probably due to how it would affect the final pH balance of the finished product and thereby affect taste.

I'm just curious as to what the perceived benefits are. Yeast will acidify it's own environment within the early stages of fermentation to limit competition for its food supply. Please, understand that I'm not being critical of someone else's practices, it's just that I've never seen or heard of it being done anywhere but in the hobby distilling community. Perhaps it acts more as an aid to help invert the sugar, which yeast will do on its own.

BS

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Knuklehead
(member)
05/16/04 01:47 AM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Brain_Solenoid]

I don't know the facts behind it Brain and there is no doubt to me in reading some of your posts that you know way more then I on this subject but what I do know is what I have experienced and that is that if I acidify the wash it starts faster and finishes sooner. It seems to work for me and like I have mentioned I have done a batch without the acidity and it makes no differance in my final product so that is why I do it. I like to collect information and then test it out and see if it works for me and I have done alot of experimenting with little sample washes and I have alway found that adding acid is the life of the party in my ferments. I have triied a sample with tomato paste just in a bowl with plastic wrap over tihe top and pin hole in the plastic and the yeast seems to absolutly love me for acidity and the nutrient by showing off at how hard it can work.

I am Canadian

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Yttrium
(journeyman)
05/16/04 03:07 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Knuklehead]

I've always believed that the main reason to slightly acidify the wash was to deter any bacterial growth in the wash. The yeast will eventually make their enviroment hostile to bacteria, but the since bacteria have a faster growth rate, the bacteria can sometimes outgrow the yeast. Of course if you somehow maintain operating room type sterilatiy in your fermenter, you won't need to worry about bacteria.

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linw
(newbie)
05/16/04 05:17 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Yttrium]

The need for acidity seems to be a combination of both "happy yeast environment" and "keep the other critters out". Quote below from home distiller seems to say this.

"Nutrients & Acidity
A slightly acidic environment is enjoyed by yeast, and also inhibits the development of bacterial contaminants. The pH of the brew should be adjusted to between 4.0 and 4.5 prior to fermentation, using citric or lactic acids. "

Personally, I reckon the turbo yeast makers know more than me so trust their judgment! So far I think my faith is justified as my wash starts quickly, takes the right time and gets to the right SG so what more can I ask?

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Brain_Solenoid
(newbie)
05/16/04 11:11 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Yttrium]

Good stuff, guys.......

On the subject of bacteria growth versus yeast growth, most homebrewers, home winemakers, and probably home distillers woefully underpitch their worts, musts, and washes. Though I can't directly find it in all my books, I have always gone by the "magic number" of 1 pint of yeast slurry in 5 gallons of well aerated wort for beer. This is mostly a function reducing the lag time between pitch and active ferment, where acidity, alcohol, and CO2 content will keep anything else at bay, as opposed to a slightly lower pitch to bolster daughter cell production, which is what we practice in the trade. By promoting a balance of healthy, performing mother cells with daughter cells, you ensure a generation of yeast for the next pitch with reduced cell wall scarification due to reproduction.

We have maintained yeast batches through re-pitching for up to 200 batches without any serious detrimental effects. Currently, we change yeast about once a quarter and still give a ton of it away to homebrewers who want Brewery strains. Only on one occasion did I lose a batch to infection and that was because I rolled the dice on a very volitile yeast strain that had been in cold storage too long. It took a few days for it to show obvious infection characteristics. The yeast simply failed to kick. In 1008 batches, that's the only time.

BS

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walkineagle
(stranger)
05/17/04 04:46 PM

Re: ferment problems new [re: Yttrium]

Brian,
I always add acid (ie lemons, or oranges) to my dandylion, and watermelon wine, my grape wine does not need it.
I just now had to deal with a stuck corn wash, what i did was add 1/2 of a medium size can of tomatoe sauce, i done that last nite.. it is here bubbling away as i type.
seems to work for me....John