Bizarre stuck ferment

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:08 am

So I've got a ferment going of two cans of grape juice concentrate, a gallon of water, two pounds of converted sugar, a couple handfuls of raisins, a gram or two of yeast nutrient, and two packets of EC-1118. This is a scaled-down version of a five-gallon recipe I usually make. I changed my methods for the scaled down version in two ways: 1) I started the yeast in some of the wash for an hour or so before I pitched it, 2) I left orange juice out of the scaled down version.

Usually when I make this recipe, it ferments vigorously for a couple of days, then most of the yeast settles out and it ferments for another month or so before fully clarifying. That makes sense, because it's essentially a wine recipe and that behaviour is typical of wine ferments. This recipe, however, fermented vigorously for a couple of days, then slowed, but most of the yeast has stayed in suspension. If it's clarified at all, it isn't noticeable to the naked eye. The ferment is milky white to the eye, exactly as it usually is in the first few days of fermentation. It's still bubbling slightly, but not enough for the airlock to make any noise.

I added a couple of grams of nutrient to the wash to see if that would wake my yeasties up, but the wash hasn't changed its behaviour that I can notice. I also tasted the wash to see if maybe it had already spent its sugars, but the wash is still sweet, although there is a sour note undercutting that sweetness. That's not atypical of this wash.

So. Should I add more nutrient? Should I call this wash infected and dump it? Should I just wait it out and let my yeasts suffer? What do you guys think went wrong?

possum · Post by **possum** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:23 am

Maybee try making another big starter in another container, aerate it good, and make a bunch of yeast. Then dump it in and mix it. What do you have to loose ?

Nothing smells funny (funny as in gross, vomitious or unwashed foot/but smell) does it ?

Maybee a little lemon juice will get the ph back up to normal.

The starter should get'er done...good luck Kato

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:00 pm

No...there's no smell like foot funk or anything. I was looking for that when I sampled it. And the texture wasn't sludgy at all.

Maybe a repitch is in order. I might also try adding a lot more nutrient to the wash and giving everything a good firm shake. It's strange--people always say EC-1118 ferments really fast, but in my experience, it takes it a long time to actually ferment a wash out.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:42 pm

I got a good deal on some of that EC1118. I made a few rum washes with it. I didn't like it. It took longer than bakers yeast. The rum didn't quite taste the same either. I had a rum wash that took a month and a half and wasn't even all the way dry. The ferment went almost the same as what you are describing. I tried adding more nuetrients and even pitched more yeast that was started in a quart jug of the wash. It just kept putting slowly along. I gave up and ran it. The final product definitly wasn't the best. I switched back to using bakers yeast.

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:04 pm

This wash I'm making usually finishes out kind of sweet, which is fine by me--it actually makes for a better brandy--but it's never acted like this before. I'm a little surprised, to tell the truth. It also always goes slowly, which is also fine.

possum · Post by **possum** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:11 am

I have been using multiple strains of yeast at the same time for rum and whiskey. One yeast I have sworn off is red star champagne yeast. I got some results with lots of off flavors. I used the redstar wine( burgendy I think) yeast without the off flavor on some raspberry wines. I havent seen EC-1118 unles it is sold under another label or name.

Anyway, for my rum and whiskey I have been using a mixed colony with the following:

Crosby superstarter dried distillers yeast @22%abvmax
Fleishmans bakers yeast @14%abv max
White labs liquid new english ale #007 (highly attenuated) @10%abv max
White labs liquid yeast high grav ale yeast platnum #025 @25%abv

This combo seems to give a good yeast for every stage in the ferment.
My rum seems to ferm better when there is a squeezed lemmon per 5-6 gallon of wash. The whiskey goes great with the backset method to keep the pH slightly acidic.

KatoFong · Post by **KatoFong** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:19 am

EC-1118 is the same strain as the Red Star champagne yeast. It's sold by Lalvin.

possum · Post by **possum** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:33 am

Thanks Kato...other folks can feel free to use it. I avoid it . Especially with very high sugar content washes. If I'm using a chamapgne yeast then I want high abv.. I got a lot of bananna flavor from a sugar and neutrient wash, and it went slow. Of course, I didn't stage feed the sugars to the yeast, and that could help keep the nasty off flavors from forming.