Condenser Design

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:09 pm

I am trying to work out a good way to fit a condenser to a 2" (50mm) pipe.

The prevailing theory would use 1/4" pipe in a single/double/triple coil arrangement, but I am concerned about kinking the pipe when coiling it at such small diameters.

My preferred theory is to make a modified heat exchanger type configuration where there is a circumference of 1/4 pipe joined by 2 plates. This heat exchanger is then twisted (180/360/540 degrees whatever) to make a coiled appearance without any kinking. The vapour will flow up the coiled 1/4" pipe with the water cooling them by flowing in the sealed space between the 2 plates. Those who own boats with inboards will have an idea what I am talking about.

The last theory is similar to the above where there is a circumference of 1/4" pipe with a single plate (at the top) and all the pipes are joined using U pieces. The water flows inside the 1/4" pipe on this one and the top plate has a small hole to prevent presurising the column and hopefully without any vapour escaping.

The soldering of small pipes and stuff doesnt concern me in the slightest, my biggest concern is coiling the 1/4" pipe in such a small diameter that I get a kink at a critical moment requiring alot of stuffing around to remove it.

I know most here prefer coiling, but has anyone tried alternative condenser methods with any success?

markx · Post by **markx** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:25 am

How much heat are you planning to pump into your boiler? You can use a single helix configuration if concerned about kinking your pipe in a multiple layer setup. But pack the free space inside and around the coil with copper scrubbers to slow the vapors down and you should be fine. My cooling coil is a single helix occupying around 25cm of column height (3.5m worth of 6mm copper tube coiled inside a 2.5" stainless pipe) The free space inside and around the coil is packed with copper mesh and with 1L/min water flow it can take the full heat of 3.2kW elements with ease. No need for twisting a tangle of pipe in triple helix configutation.

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:24 pm

Yep, thats an idea.

One step further for me would be to wrap the coil around another pipe that fits inside the 2", and cap the pipe causing a helter skelter arrangement for the vapour.

Kind of a solid core with a spiral the vapours have to follow.

Post by **Tater** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:56 am

Use search.Read sights in my signature. Lots of info there,From what you were describing sounds like you were talking about a shot gun condenser.Good luck

AllanD · Post by **AllanD** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:14 am

I have a bending machine that will make perfect little helixes as long as the length of tubing fed to it....

Ever seen a 50foot length of 1/4" soft copper turned into a 1-7/8"
diameter continuous coil?

it looks like a garage door spring when you are done:)

AllanD

maze48 · Post by **maze48** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:33 am

AllanD wrote:I have a bending machine that will make perfect little helixes as long as the length of tubing fed to it....

Ever seen a 50foot length of 1/4" soft copper turned into a 1-7/8"
diameter continuous coil?

it looks like a garage door spring when you are done:)

AllanD

Is it possible to post some pic's of your bending machine? Bending by hand sux.

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:09 pm

It takes practice, but it's not that hard. copper can be easily coiled to make a perfectly functional single helix condensor for 2" pipe. There were some good instructions posted a while back...

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:41 pm

It just takes a small bit of patience....

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=188#188

AllanD · Post by **AllanD** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:06 pm

I'd provide a PIC, but I am without a functioning digital camera
or any place to host the image

It's made by a company that was called (atleast at the time the machine was made) "Applied Sciences"

It uses two gear driven rollers that pass the tubing through (powered by a handcrank) through a pair of free rolling rollers.

the relative position of the two free rolling rollers (on either side)
is adjusted by means of a jack screw, so you can make continuous
helixes of any diameter smaller than the coil of tubing used as a supply
down to about 1-5/8".

But to make small diameter coils (smaller than 2-1/2") you MUST have fairly fresh dead-soft tubing or it will kink or even crush instead of curl.

I got it off of ebay a couple of years ago.
The seller wasn't completely sure what it was and I actually paid more to have it shipped from california than I paid for the machine itself
it's a benchtop machine no bigger than a kitchenaid mixer.
It functions like a professional exhaust tube bending machine
but is for obvious reasons much smaller.

I originally got it for making inductor coils (commonly called "tank coils")
for the tuned output stage fo an RF amplifier a friend was building
(the coils I made looked great after they came out of the silver plating bath)

I wish I could find the company that made it because I'd almost literally kill for a set of rollers for the machine that would allow me to work 3/16" diameter tubing, particularly if I could also work on soft steel brake line
tubing....

AllanD

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:19 pm

I used the instructions from Grayson's post (by the way, thanks Grayson) I was able to hand wind 1/4" o.d. copper around a 5/8" o.d. pipe, then wound it back on itself to make a double helix coil that fits easily into a 2" diameter copper tube. All by hand. It flattened just a little but didn't kink. Its really not as hard as it seems.

AllanD · Post by **AllanD** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:06 pm

If you are working with copper tube that's fairly fresh from
the mill it's easy to do it by hand... special tools like the
bending machine I have makes it easier to work copper
that isn't so "fresh"

Copper tube will age harden if subjected to any vibration
Transporting it, leaving it on a shelf with an fan
stored in a room with a loud radio...

And the harder it gets the harder it is to work.

so yours gave you no trouble rolling it into a coaxial helix?

where ever you got it it's a good place to buy copper tube!

AllanD

Rebel_Yell · Post by **Rebel_Yell** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:25 pm

Dang,

I never knew that the music my copper tubing listens to will impact how it bends.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:24 pm

Glad it helped LHCB.

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:25 am

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3913 ... ghteb0.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4697 ... dthcc1.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1888 ... lednj9.jpg

Bought the copper at lowe's. It took 20 feet of it to make this coil. I loosened the outer coils a little to increase the vapor contact surface area. I untwisted it a little by hand, to get the two coils off each other. It isn't the prettiest coil I've ever seen but it works.

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:30 am

Rebel_Yell wrote:
Dang,

I never knew that the music my copper tubing listens to will impact how it bends.

If the music is really HOT it might anneal the tubing and make it easier to coil.

absinthe · Post by **absinthe** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:51 am

to anneal copper pipe heat it up then quench it to cool it down fast, its the opposite to steel

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:04 pm

Ahh, that looks awesome Grayson ... I will use your method I think, its awesome.

Thanks for your input.