We figured we'g give it a try today. Took the big ole' mash pot and put enough water in to emmerse the beer keg we use for a boiler. Charge the keg with a grain slurry and fired it up.
The pluses:
1.Never had to strain the mash
2.Pulled what seems like a very full bodied whiskey full of flavour, much more flavour than distilling wort.
The downside:
1. took an awefull long time just to do a strip run.
2. Burned about 3 times the propane it would nomally take to strip this much mash.
3. Cleanup was a real pain in the ass.
I guess we'll see if it was worth the time and effort after the spirit run.
Anyone else got any personal experience distilling on the grain?
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
The spirit run will carry that strong flavor over too. Thats my favorite part. That and the zero chance of scorching or burning.
Your dead on about the time and gas thing... It takes a long time. If you are doing a nearly full keg of low abv mash it can be painfully slow. A well designed double boiler is essential too. There needs to be a good fit between the two vessels so the loss as steam is minimized. Someone used a restaurant bain marie as a good example. You know the two soup pots that fit close together. I got lucky and found a big ol pot that my boiler fits snugly into. Someday when I find the right keg I'll make one out of all stainless.
So, insulation helps a lot. And doing batches no larger than about 10 gallons in a 15 gallon keg keep the time and gas costs more in line.
I could probably stuff 2 fingers in between the pot and the keg all the way around. I figured once I got the mash up to temp and the water boiling I'd be able to cut it back to a slow boil. But no way I had to have it boiling hard to get any amount of output and even then it was painfully slow. It wasn't very efficent by any stretch of the imagination. There's gotta be a better way...I was thinking maybe salt water to raise the boiling point?
My mash was probably 12-15% av. not what I'd really call a low % wash and the keg was full to the nines. The hearts I was pulling were 60-65%, I ended up cutting the tails at about 40% cuz I had enough...but thats Ok I'm sure there will be plenty of flavour.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
="Uncle Remus"
There's gotta be a better way...I was thinking maybe salt water to raise the boiling point?
If you had Pothead's water jacketed boiler you could put a pressure cooker type weight on it to raise the temp.
I looked into using salt in my water jacket but you need a hell of a lot of salt to raise it significantly and my water jacket is a steel hot water tank and I didn't want to corrode it.
You could try using oil instead of water. If you heat it with thermostat controlled electric element set at, say 140C it should go pretty well. I have parts to build a small scale test setup using that principle but haven't had time to put it together.
I think so too GP. Cleanup was messy too.... don't think we'll do it again.
But I gotta admit lots of grain taste came through into the distillate...too much really, but I'm thinking after the spirit run, which will be combined with a previous strip run that wasn't on the grain, it should be good.
It kinda has a smell like fresh cut hay (for lack of a better description) kinda earthy smelling I guess.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
I've run my 5 gal(us) still with grain in a BOP full of water. SLOW is the word.
A good way to use the grain is to siphon or dipper the beer off of the top, and strip run it.
Later, add the grain to the spirit run.
I've done this without the doubble boiler, with minimal scortching. The boiling point is a bit lower in the spirit run.
Collect deep into tails, with multiple containers and then test them.
Cleanup is still a little bit more than the no solids beer, but dosent need a doubble boiler unless there is lots of solids.
I don't get why cleanup was harder? If anything, it just shifts a little work from not straining the mash to cleaning out some grain from the boiler. And once its running, it runs just as fast as without a double boiler. The heatup does take longer for sure...
I think that I just got lucky finding a BOP that fits my boiler so well. Its not any more work for me to run a double. I never have to fill it up because the fit between the two parts doesn't lose much steam at all. I think I need to do some more runs without a double boiler so I can better understand ya'lls perspective. I sure respect what you have to say, but except for time, I don't have any troubles.
My biggest bitch is the amount of propane I used. Not that I'm cheap, but I like to be efficient.
The inside of the keg had some grain glued to it pretty good, I had to scrub it with a brillo pad, kinda like a bowl of oatmeal that you forget to rinse out and it sits on the counter all day and hardens like cement.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
well, you're dead on about that... The heatup time is a lot longer. If you have a system where the steam can escape then its going to be MUCH longer. In mine, the keg is pretty much sealed up to the bottom third. There isn't much chance for steam to escape so it works pretty fast, (relative to an open system.) Seems like I learned somewhere that steam is a better medium to transfer heat than water, so that might explain why having 1/3 of the boiler bathed in steam works well. IMHO having a proper steam generating boiler is the most important factor in using a double boiler system. (maybe we should call it steam fired instead of double boiler... sounds cooler anyway...)
Was there metal to metal contact when you did that run? I wonder if the heat could have migrated across the metals to cause the sticking trouble. I have never had any sticking problems. If the bottom of your keg sat on top of the bottom of the BOP, then the temperature of the metal could have been a lot higher than the temp of steam. (insert proper emotican here) that may explain why grain got stuck.
Anyway, the whole issue of insulation is what I originally wanted to respond to. I wrap the whole rig in kaowool. Its a ceramic fiber insulation for kilns and forges etc... I got a big roll of it a few years ago. It is very good insulation, but not cheap, and not benign either. You can hold a square in your hand and put a cutting torch to it and only feel it get a little warm. (don't try this at home) After I wrap the still up, I adjust the fire till I don't feel much heat escaping around the outside of the insulation. Once everything is up to running temp, I have to bring the fire way done or it will easily overheat. A couple of candles would almost power a spirit run after the heatup.
Ive been using a cut off 55 gallon steel barrel the hight of my 15 gallon keg.Filled with water and some sawdust and rolled up newspaper to fill in gap between the two.does take longer to heat but rye sure does taste good distilled that way.If ya like grain likker witch I dont much.
now i have an internal element with my setup. never tried distilling on the grain but would i be at risk of creating a huge burnt mess inside my boiler. ive always wondered how well a heat exchanging coil with near boiling water would work inside of a potstill.
You will distill on the grain with internal elements once and only once....it will make the biggest mess you have ever seen. You will likely find smoke (not vapor) rising from the condensor. When you chip away at the mess inside in an attempt to clean it, you will find your elements in a bent, sadly distorted shape from the heat which could not dissipate throughout the wash.
Someone on here did that once and I won't mention his name (he can comment if he wishes). He was unable to clean the burned mess from his stainless boiler and had to use some kind of heavy duty metal acid to remove the black mess from the stainless then replace his internal elements.
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
I've distilled several times on the grains using internal heating element. The trick is to shield the element so it's not in direct contact with grains. A sieve or something similar works for that. However, it will not always work. Small grain particles may get through the sieve and get burned to the element. When this happens in excess you'll get nasty scorched taste to your spirits.
