uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[absinthe]

well i ran it in my 40 inch tower with no packing or cooling, and it started at something like 90 or a bit more, i ran right down to about 15 i think, but i got the same in heads as tails, about 2 ltrs, i was tasteing as i was going and i thought i could have collected earler than i did. but i wanted to follow the recipe for my first tasteing run of the UJSM

[absinthe]

oh and im sorry i mean about 700 mls or 62%abv to age in my barrel

[Husker]

You might try to better insulate your column, to cut down on the reflux some. 90% on an unstripped mash sounds like you are wasting all of the flavor this mash has. Sounds like your column is just not working well as a pot still replacement.

I also agree with others about volume. I am running a 7 gallon fermenter, and getting 5 gallons of wash. I am getting 4.5L of stripped low wines (at about 36%), which ends up 200mL FS, 300-400mL heads, about 1.6L body (about 65%), and about 800mL tails. Result is 2.6L 40% or 2L of 50% (where I like it), from 5 gallons of wash. Note, my backset is 1.5 to 2% ABV, and I am using 8.5 lb of sugar (vs 7 lb in the recipe). So for 60L wash, I am getting about 6L of "sipping" stuff (50%).

H.

[absinthe]

it was a stripped wash, it had 2 batches of low wines, but i will try insulating my column, i was also running in cold air temps with might have caused more relux... i thought it was strange to get such a small amount of product so i ran deep into the tails and will add it all to the low wine for the next run

[Husker]

In this recipe, I compute that I should be seeing about 8% ABV when done, but back computing after a stripping run, by using my pot still calculator, it appears that I am right in the 11 to 11.5% ABV finished mash range.

Does the backset "mash" some of the grain, and put more fermentables into the wash as the wash is progressing? I seem to be getting a little better return than just from the sugar. I figured the unmashed grain was just for flavor, but from what I am seeing, it appears to add a bit more than just flavorings. I know that I am getting 0.5% or so from the left over ethanol in the mash (and I am not sure what that does to the validity of the starting hydro readings). But there is still about 3% more than the simple sugar would suggest.

I now have about 7 gallons of 36% stripped. Just finished my horrible looking still head (offset valved), but finally got it leak free. Had leaks at many of the joints, but took it in today, and put some oxy/acc to it, and spent about an hour or so working it slowly, and with the nice "accurate" flame, and finally got all the joints to pull in. Ugly drips, leaks splatters everywhere, but since it is leak free, I do not care.

H.

[maytag]

i have 1 gallon of heads and 1 gallon of tails, whould it help or hurt, if i run them thru a carbon filter, then add them to my next sour mash run.

[Aidas]

If you run them through a carbon filter you'll be taking flavor out. Just run it with your next batch.

Aidas

[Uncle Jesse]

Husker, you will convert some of the corn for alcohol, just not a huge amount as you would if you cooked the corn first. The problem there is that you really have to boil the hell out of corn to make it disperse properly which is not cost effective. That's where the sugar comes in for most of the alcohol.

Also remember that there will be some alcohol left in your backset which will raise the overall ABV of your wash.

[Mtn-Hi]

Hope I'm not repeating a question, I might of missed a page in the reading. My question is, in Ians book he says to skim the spent grain 2 or 3 time a day but it look like this method only removes the spent grain at the end of each ferment cycle. Am I reading that right? Is there a lot of spent grain that sinks back down and if so does it matter?
I've been doing Ians recipe of Flaked maize, barley and rye. I'm getting overrun with barrels, bottles and jars of the stuff so I thought I'd try something else for a while.
Thank Uncle Jesse for all the good information.

[Aidas]

Well, I managed to keep my mitts off a fair amount of UJSM from my october runs... until yesterday evening.

Fortunately, I knew that this would happen, so I put aside 750 ML in a seperate bottle on some raisins and toasted oak. After a long hard day at the grindstone, and then painting the spare room at the house, I needed a drink. Instead of drinking a modified mint-julep (strong mint tea with UJSM) that I've taken a liking to with my immature liquors, I decided to pour myself a slug neat.

Nectar! Smooth! No bite, nothing but a perfect slightly vanilla-y hint on the palate and a wonderful warmth going down.

I've finally gotten what many have posted as "better than what you can buy". And this -- from a two month old run. I hope I manage to keep my hands off the stuff I hid from myself in the basement (Calvados, UJSM Corn, Rye, Barley, etc.). I'm sure they'll be something that I will be VERY proud of.

Up to now, I'm hard-pressed to say whether the pure corn, the pure rye or the pure barley are the best. Up until yesterday I was leaning towards the barley or the rye. Now I'll have to wait for those to catch up (I'm distress-aging them) and do a real comparative tasting.

Then, I'll have to start tasting the different bourbons that I've done -- more/less corn/rye/barley. Ah, this hobby has its rewards...

In any case, Jesse - your place in heaven is guaranteed! Thank you, once again!

Aidas

[Uncle Jesse]

Great work, Aidas! Sounds to me like you've definitely gotten the hang of it. Glad you enjoy that simple sour mash whiskey as much as I do, it's a fine product anyone who likes whiskey would appreciate.

[mtnwalker2]

This is a copy of a reply I just sent on another forum (in respons of how to make moonshine, easy). It has an interesting twist that may or may not turn out so good, but is looking very promising. Will update results- good or bad!

I think the following link will take you to the UJSM site of home distiller recipe with pictures of the process. For real old time moonshine, and the very simplest as well as cheapest. I have 2 going now, one a first generation, and another, a second generation sour mash with backset, which is where you start getting the good stuff, and which is typical of old timey real corn moonshine.

I use one deviance, and this was sorta by accident. I used 10# cane sugar and one and a half gallons cracked corn (chicken feed) and the price was also! into a 25 L fermentater. But then I added some Prestige whiskey yeast with AG and 6 teaspoons of 5.2 PH buffer. Well it ate the sugar in the 3 or so days, but, and heres the change, it has now been exactly 6 days, 144 hours, and not any decrease in fermentation- air lock is going like crazy, and the bright yellow corn is all turning pale and gray, so I am sure I am getting almost total conversion of the potential sugars from the corn. What a plus and worth the wait. I will update when I do the stripping run and again when I do the spirit run with or without the second sour mash run. I won't decide that until I see what the quality of this first one tasts like.

PS. One additional joy was, I brought the fermentater out and place on the coffee table over Christmas. At that time there was a 2-1/2" or so layer of bright yelow corn on the bottom, and about an inch at the top like a cap. About 5 or 6 times a second there would be an explosion in the bottom layer that can only be described as like a miniature solar flare carrying particles of corn up with the co2 gasses, the top cap looked like boiling lava as the gas came through (for some reason the top didn't fog up like normal fermentations do, but remained clear, and so easy to see through), but the most dramatic part was that the bits of corn in the fairly clear wash between the cap and layer at the bottom was a constant snowfall, like those little glass things you shook up when a kid. It was a constant rise and fall of the little corn particles. My daughter has promised to find us a 6 and a 1/2gallon glass fermentater so we can see it more clearly- much better than any lava lamp. Anyhow, I think you should try the UJSM recipe first. Its easy, quick, cheap, and supurb quality.

BTW, except for the short periods of time on the coffee table, it has been kept at a constant 27 deg. C temp. for the entire run, and plenty of O2 to start out with. My water is high mountain spring water, which the Gov. tests annually, as its the oldest spring water on the eastern US and is used as a comp. for all other waters and their annual change. Water temp. was 7 deg. C yesterday through my condenser for a stripping run! Gravity fed. Whoopla!

Have a great New Year everyone!

[AfricaUnite]

I just wanted to give a big shout out to UJ, I just made a recipie following Uncle Jesse's loosely.

25L Water
4kg (8.8lbs) sugar
9lbs cracked corn from petsmart (thanks to UJ for the tip off on Petsmart carrying cracked corn)
2 cups cornmeal (I bought 15lbs of cornmeal when I couldnt find cracked corn so I thought i'd use it all up, a bit at a time)
1 package Ec-1118 yeast.

I wanted to follow the recipie to a "T" but Im used to higher alcohol mash's. I hope my addition of extra cracked corn and cornmeal will not make an undesireable product, just a different product than Uncle Jesse's. Now I have to read on oak treatment of UJSM. Thanks again.

-AU

[Uncle Jesse]

I'm glad to see people experimenting. This isn't a hard and fast method. There is no right way to do it, there are many right ways. You can try it with rye for instance. At any rate, I can see you have gotten good results and are starting to experiment and push the boundaries, keep it up and let us know what you find.

[Uncle Jesse]

Hope I'm not repeating a question, I might of missed a page in the reading. My question is, in Ians book he says to skim the spent grain 2 or 3 time a day but it look like this method only removes the spent grain at the end of each ferment cycle. Am I reading that right? Is there a lot of spent grain that sinks back down and if so does it matter?
I've been doing Ians recipe of Flaked maize, barley and rye. I'm getting overrun with barrels, bottles and jars of the stuff so I thought I'd try something else for a while.
Thank Uncle Jesse for all the good information.

Ian's version is basically what he learned from me, and I'm not familiar with his particular procedure. The first version of his book didn't have any info on sour mashing so we corresponded and he learned how. I'm sure whatever method he uses works fine as he's a very competent distiller.

I wait until fermentation is finished and scoop off the grains on the top. I have done it when fermentation was first starting as well but normally I get rid of the grains on top of the beer before I drain it to charge the still.

Again, don't get too married to a procedure. I tried to keep this very simple as it's a beginners guide which is also why the cuts are so conservative. There is a lot of room to experiment and that's part of the real joy and intrigue of this hobby.

[AfricaUnite]

I just did my stripping run and the middle tasted very nice, drinkable on its own, but I can see how the addition of backset, a second distillation and maybe some time on oak will greatly improve improve the flavor. Im going to stop using cornmeal as there is no way to remove it from the mash and it will just accumulate where as the corn is easy to get rid of spent kernels and continue the sour mash process.

[AfricaUnite]

Steve, what are you adding and what approx % in relation to corn? I think Rum will be next on my to do list but burbon will be shortly after.

[speedfreaksteve]

20L wash...

Rye I use about 5 lbs of malted rye and 2 lbs of cracked corn. Then add about 6-7 lbs of table sugar.

Bourbon It's the opposite, use 5-6lbs of cracked corn and 2 lbs of malted rye. Then 6-7 lbs of table sugar.

In both cases I ALWAYS sour mash. I used about 5 litres of backset sometimes abit more.

As soon as I have 2 gallons of hearts from rye I'll be distress aging it with some charred white oak strips that I got. The problem is that it tastes so good already that I have trouble not using it all up.

[Uncle Jesse]

I always take some of the early-middle part of my stripping run to sampling. Usually take about 500ml and then after I cut it down I have a 750ml bottle of single run product to sip on for a few days.

Last night, I was drinking some small batch bourbon I got for Christmas that was about $40 for a small bottle. After a glass of that I went to some of the bourbon from my last strip run and I actually thought it tasted much better, even without the wood aging.

It was a good feeling the first time I tried some of my own product and realized it was as good or better than anything I had on my shelf.

[Husker]

Uncle Jesse

I always take some of the early-middle part of my stripping run to sampling. Usually take about 500ml and then after I cut it down I have a 750ml bottle of single run product to sip on for a few days.

Last night, I was drinking some small batch bourbon I got for Christmas that was about $40 for a small bottle. After a glass of that I went to some of the bourbon from my last strip run and I actually thought it tasted much better, even without the wood aging.

It was a good feeling the first time I tried some of my own product and realized it was as good or better than anything I had on my shelf.

I agree. However, my wife hates and will not drink it. Not that it is bad (I know she does not think it worse than commerial crap). She just hates that I spend so much time at it, and the equipement is starting to build up, and take up so much space

However, I agree. Most everything I have produced, (since I have advanced beyond sugar turbo washes), have been far better than most anything you can buy.

H.

[GrayGull]

My first post -
Uncle Jesse has sought feedback, so here is my experience with his Simple Sour Mash recipe …
I have only started in this caper since mid-last year. No special background, but I figured that I should be able to save big bucks on my regular Scotch purchases. I haven’t bought a bottle of scotch now for six months, and probably never will again. The hobby, and the product, are so addictive.
I have done the due diligence, Smiley’s bible and much from the internet, particularly the wise words on this forum.
After not very good results with a hot barley mash, I decided that Sour Mash was simpler (and keeps me out of the kitchen). Worth a try …
I have a 25 litre boiler, 1350 watt element, with a typical fractionating offset head still. I have added a liebig condenser, a thermometer at the 10 litre level of my boiler as well as a head thermometer, and use a simmerstat to control the electric element. I usually set the boiler temp to about 93 degrees C. I have also made a device that continuously monitors the output abv. The condenser is fed by an aquarium pump from a 45 litre sump.
My sense of smell is questionable due no doubt to misspent youth, so I take off in 500ml containers and make the cuts guided by the abv. Typically about 75 ml foreshots, then 500ml headers, the rest being good, though I shut down after dark and probably lose much tails because the abv then is usually still about 60%

Back to Uncle Jesse. I have just completed four distillations (scrubbers in, but the output valve wide open – basically a pot still) of my three fermenters. Each with 4 kg of cracked barley and 3.5 kg sugar to start, then 3.5 kg of sugar on each re-fermentation, though I cut back to 3 kg of sugar on the last fermentation. Used ordinary health food shop Brewers Yeast to start.
A fermentation on Friday, Saturday and Sunday gave me mash for a beer stripping run exactly one week later – generating 2.0 - 2.5 litres of good stuff (about 60-70%abv) with feints and backset for the next fermentation.
So you can see, it’s a 4 week process that results in 25 litres of low wines and 12 separate beer stripping distillations.

Now for the payoff. Today I am doing a spirit distillation with a boiler full of 25 litres of low wines. So far the output has been 3 litres of 90%abv every 3 hours, so I’m expecting to end up with about 27 litres of 44% sour mash whisky. Taste yet to be determined, but I’m saving all in 5 litre glass carboys (Mason Jars?) with shredded oak chips added.
Looks like I’ll have a late night, but I guess that I’ll end up with enough for a while

Next. Fix up a leak in the boiler lid seal, redesign the condenser for more capacity (there sometimes seem to be vapour at the output). And work out how to produce a good gin.

[Grayson_Stewart]

GrayGull said:

the rest being good, though I shut down after dark and probably lose much tails because the abv then is usually still about 60%........Today I am doing a spirit distillation with a boiler full of 25 litres of low wines.So far the output has been 3 litres of 90%abv every 3 hours

If you stop collecting at 120 proof on all your low wine runs and then double distill that to 180 proof, I don't see how you retain very much if any flavor from the grain.

[GrayGull]

Thanks Grayson. Quite probably I am losing flavor. What do you advise? Your advice will be gratefully appreciated as I'm very much a learner ...

[Grayson_Stewart]

If you are going to make 2 runs like you have stated then I would collect well into 40 proof on the low wine runs just because there is alcohol in the mix at that proof. Then, on the secong run, I would collect down to 90 proof if you wanted a very clean type of whiskey, maybe even down to 80 proof if you wanted something with more flavor.

I know folks that collect just the hearts and age on oak and thats perfectly fine if that is what you want, some people just prefer the grain taste to come across more.

[Fretman124]

I did about 5 generations of this with my first potstill. Didn't come out too good. I have since cleaned up my fermentation process, and built a new potstill. I'm running my 4th generation as I type this. One thing I've done in the last two runs add about 1/2 of the corn in the fermentr to my boiler. I'm guess a gallon bucket filled 1 to 1 1/2 times. Not sure as I just scoop it in. I run up to temp pretty quick and then slow it way down. I've been taking 2 quart jars out of the middle of the run, air them out for a few days, cut to 80 proof or so and add a drop of hunney to each. mm mmm good. The stuff I'm taking from todays run will get a couple sticks of toasted oak in it. Let it sit for a month or so. then cut and flavor as above.

Man I love this hobby....so do my friends

[Ricky]

i have been doing stripping runs on the ujsm. i collect down to 20%. after i have 5 or more gals i run a 2nd time. so far my run starts at 80%. after the forshots i collect in quart jars until i fall to 75%. i collect the rest as tails for the next run. then i go back and smell taste the jars and keep the best. i have been thinking about going down to 70% but the results i have been getting is a nice mellow whiskey that is great green and even better after 2 weeks on oak. i have to thank uncle jesse for the recipe. i just hope the next batch is as good. if i can duplicate this i will be well pleased.

[markophonic]

I performed my first distillations this weekend! I'm using Uncle Jesse's recipe...I ended up using the Prestige WD whiskey yeast and threw a dash of the Coopers ale yeast I had. This past weekend I distilled two 25L batches and have two more 25L batches ready to go. I'm using the backset and fermenting two more batches starting today.

Since this was my first time distilling in my potstill (15.5 SS beer keg and a short copper column and water cooled condenser) I just ran it and watched, smelled, tasted etc. to get a feel for the still. It was a rather unscientific approach as I didn't use any intsruments other than the thermometer and my senses. I plan on saving up everything from 4-5 runs and re-distilling. I was worried that maybe it would take a while to get the hang of noticing changes during distillation...but I was surprised to find that the cuts I made flying by the seat of my pants were pretty close to where they should be. I wouldn't have been able to do it without the words and wisdom of those on this forum.

I was totally surprised at how good this has turned out so far and can't wait to get a few generations down the road and see how things turn out.

Uncle Jesse, Thanks for the great recipe and guidance you have provided and to all who have helped us new folks along!

[PureEthanol]

I will be trying my first UJSM run soon with a 28" column, offset head valved reflux still. Have been running sugar washes with good success. Thinking about just pulling out all the SS scrubbers, but I don't want to end up doing two runs if I don't have to. Any advice on how much of the column (if any) show have scrubbers to give good single decent results? I've seen Uncle Jesse say he's using a fractioning still. Obvious it has to be detuned to let some flavor through. Just wondering what settings people are using.

I know, I know, pot still and multiple runs... got a needy family so time is precious!

[blanikdog]

i'd appreciate any comments on this, especially ways in which i need to simplify things or explain things more clearly.

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Uncle_Jes ... ash_Method

My first attempt to make this whisky seems like a disaster. I couldn't find any corn so tried using polenta (corn meal) instead. After the first distilling run it tasted of a basic sugar run. I added backset from the first run to the second fermentation and it still smells of sugar.

Maybe polenta wasn't such a good idea, but at least I can carbon filter it and turn it into vodka.

I'll try again with corn.

[TRANSPLANTED HILLBILLY]

Polenta/Grits will work, but its a pain. If ya wanna give it another try, either let it soak in the water till soft and the water is starchy or boil it till it gets creamy.
Course at that point, ya just as well put barley malt in it and make corn whisky.

In reallity you need to do what the recipe calls for and do several stripping runs, and a final, 2nd or spirit run, as its called, before ya pass judgement.

Keep at it.