Home built barrel

[Backwoods]

I am a carpenter by trade and seeing as how little one gallon oak barrels are very pricey i decided to build my own. It did not work would be the polite way of saying it! In reality i made 3 solid efforts at it, the first time it held water like a dream with the exception of one lid leaked slightly, the second attempt i had a leak in both lids and along one seam of the side. The third attempt was the most catastrophic and successful, the barrel held liquid like a dream but as the wood continued to swell the force it produced broke the metal bands (which sounds like a shotgun going off if you were curious) and sent water and pieces of the barrel flying all over (the furthest piece made it about ten feet).
I'm curious if any of you have ever tried something similar with any success? I'm going to try a fourth time, and any info will in fact help!

[stoker]

that's very interesting.
barrelmaking is known to be very difficult, but being a carpenter might do the trick.

I would love to see some pictures.

go for the fourth! good luck

[hornedrhodent]

but being a carpenter might do the trick.

I wonder if he used nails or screws?

[stoker]

I go for glue

[triggernum5]

I tried once... ONCE!:)

Edit: I love the little birdie..

[stoker]

thank you, so do i

[level Joe]

I watched Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe where he worked in a cooperage.
After they cut the groove in the barrel that will accept the head, they mix a past/dough of flour, water and oak sawdust. They used a tool or a piece of wood and pressed a thin layer into that groove then installed the head. When they filled the barrel with water to test for leaks the sawdust and flour swells up and seals the area around the head. Maybe you can salvage your first two barrels.

I go for glue

I haven’t seen the heads being assembled but I don’t believe they are one solid piece of oak but that they are slats. So I would be willing to bet they do use some kind of glue .

[triggernum5]

I don’t believe they are one solid piece of oak but that they are slats.

Every barrel I've seen had slats..[/quote]

[pintoshine]

I love barrels. I am so lucky that I can get barrels any time I want. I want to build some small ones. I have a question for you. Did you make your barrels from air dried or kiln dried oak?

[Backwoods]

I used kiln dried american white oak for all my attemps.
I did not use any nails, screws, or glue!
They were held together by three 8" stainless steel hose clamps (supposedly rated for 150 pounds of pressure each).
I will not be able to get any pictures posted until sunday, when i have time to sit down an do some work on the computer.
Thanks for the flour an sawdust tip, i'll keep an eye out for that episode of dirty jobs.

[pintoshine]

Another tip for you. The staves that they use in all the cooperages around here in Ky are made from air dried white oak. They are not really that dry at all. Most of the time they have been allowed to dry out in the weather for a year or two.
For the seal around the top, they only use dried cattails. Yes the flat green things that grow in the swampy areas. They collect them around late August to early September whenever that are the tallest and allow them to dry. There are two species growing in the central USA. One is smaller than the other. The larger species swells more when it gets wet. This is their primary gasket material for sealing around the top and sometimes in between the boards in the top.
American Stave always has a real demonstration at the Bourbon Festival in Bardstown, KY every year. I have a very nice video from Colonial Williamsburg, that shows the old way of making the barrels from beginning to end. It was pretty cheap and is available for sail at their site. I went down to Sonora Ky last year and bought some fresh cut oak to put out to dry. I am intending on trying my hand at it this coming winter.

[junkyard dawg]

just my 2 cents... but I wonder if those hose clamps are going to be strong enough? You may need a beefier hoop to hold things together. Good luck.

[Big J]

For the seal around the top, they only use dried cattails. Yes the flat green things that grow in the swampy areas.

When I toured a cooperage here in SA, that's what they used for sealing as well.

I think Harry has some videos of a cooperage on his site that may be helpful or just interesting.
http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers,
J

[level Joe]

Here is a clip from You Tube of the Speyside Cooperage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS4PHgy9oJ4

At about 45 seconds into it, it shows the cattails getting jamed in.

[Husker]

just my 2 cents... but I wonder if those hose clamps are going to be strong enough? You may need a beefier hoop to hold things together. Good luck.

I agree. The hoops on the barrels I have are about 1/8 to 3/16" THICK, and about 2" tall. I am sure they hold many tons of pressure.

150 lb aint squat. Also, I think the hoops are heated up red hot, to make them larger (from expansion), then pounded on hot, then nailed in. Then when they cool, they contract, and compress the wood even more. I really seriously doubt that you will get hose clamps to get that tight.

H.

[pintoshine]

The hoops I have got on hand are 20 gauge 0.035" or 0.89 mm I measured them. I have some plain mild steel ones and some galvanized ones. The galvanized ones turn the wood black. The end hoops are 1 1/2" wide and the bilge hoops are 1 3/4" . They are all peened on one edge to make them frustrum shaped and are all held together with two 1/4" solid steel rivets.

Enough about hoops. I have more questions.
Were your staves all the same width or were they irregular like most barrels?
Were your tops one piece?
What did you use to plane the stave edges?
Did you use power tools or traditional hand tools such as shaves?

I have designed a jig to cut the curve and the angle at the same time. At American Stave they use a really large cup shaped sanding disk. I am planning on making all the staves the same width, because the jig will allow me to cut them all the same size. I have cattails growing in my front yard and put some up last September to dry. My plan is to reuse the old hoops cut down to the correct width and circumference for 15 gallon barrels. These are 19.5" long and 15" in diameter at the ends. the bilge is about an inch larger. It matches the proportions of a standard whiskey barrel. I am hoping to be able to make several.

[CoopsOz]

Man Pinto, you are definitely serious about your hobby. I wish I could taste some of your hootch. Your level of dedication is amazing.

[pintoshine]

Thank you for the compliment CoopOz. I don't think you would be disappointed in my rum, my whiskey or my vodkas. I am going to start making a good all malted barley later this year and have just acquired 20L of agave extract.
I'm planning to make a good bourbon in the barrels, then a good Malt whiskey, and then either a nice rum or tequila.
But on my forum the talk of the week is a wheat germ liquor that is to die for.
The white is a full flavored whiskey that carries a scotch like flavor straight off the worm and it is so nice.
I haven't started the barrels yet. I have worked out all the details in CAD. The jig is next on the list after my 200 L pot still made in the traditional way with rivets sheet metal and solder. The 200L pot still has a 60L doubler and a 40KW condenser. It looks real nice.

[stillvodka]

You may find, it's not the knowing how to make these barrel's, it's knowing the 'Tricks of the Trade' watching the old hands who's been at it for years, the best way, is to actually see them being made and study how they are going about it.

I know it's totally different thing, but i had a career change, went into the building trade with my brother who as been a general builder for years, watched him putting plaster on a wall, i thought it looked easy watching him do it, i thought yes, right, i can do that, he gave me the Hawk and trowel, have a go he said, do you know, i found it hard enough just getting the plaster off the spot, onto my hawk, i made a good ole mess, that was along while ago now, he made me watch, look and learn for ages, pick up all those little tricks, i am ok at it now , knowwhere near as fast as my brother though.

[mtnwalker2]

But on my forum the talk of the week is a wheat germ liquor that is to die for.
The white is a full flavored whiskey that carries a scotch like flavor straight off the worm and it is so nice.

I can definatly second that. I put some on oak, and its loseing character, though still good. It just doesn't need any addition. The easiest and cheapest whiskey I've ever made also.

[Backwoods]

Ok her's some more info for you guys.
My barrel is not tapered from top to bottom, i made a straight cylinder. the barrel is 16 sided with the staves all cut at 11.25 degrees(angle cut on both sides of the staves, staves are 1 3/8"on the wide side), my staves are 12" long with a 3/4" wide and 3/8" deep dato set in 1/2" from each end (this is the groove in which my lids sit). My lids are 3/4" thick and 6" in diameter, i drilled a 7/16" hole in one of them to accept a wine cork.

I have pictures of it on my computer but was unable to add them to this text body, if anyone can tell me how to post them here i will.

On the next attempt i will try and use cat tails, and i think that i will thin all my material down to 3/8". My staves were 3/4" thick and i found that the liquid in my barrel was not soaking in deep enough causing only the internal area of my barrel to swell and causing my staves to seperate on the exterior side. This lead to the seams being exposed to air unevenly and dry that way as well, so the barrelwould split open more on one side.

Also i would have liked to use solid hoops, but was unable to find the right size or make them myself. This time i'm going to find some hoops and then build the barrel to fit them. You see originally i was trying to make one exactly one gallon and then fit hoops to it, but i guess it really doesn't matter if it is a little over/under a gallon as long as it is in the ballpark.[/img]

[MikeyT]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here. Been a half-fast woodworker all my life.

Lee Valley tools has what is called a Bird's-Mouth joinery bit.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,46168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I think it might work. The one for 16 sides might be best.

You will need to use very straight grain quarter-sawn White Oak. Probably 1" thickness. The width of (and length of) each stave will determine barrel diameter and total volume. Every stave will have to be exactly the same width.

Dado the end of each stave with a 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep dado set back about 1" inch from the end. This would be to receive the barrel ends cut out of a solid piece of quarter sawn white oak and dado'd to fit the stave dado's. One way to cut the dado's would be to assemble the barrel (next paragraph) and use a 1/4" slot cutter w/ bearing guide on a router table. Don't try to cut the full depth of the dado's all at once. take about 3 equal depth passes. Probably have to cut a quide jig to do this.

I'd make the barrel part first and then assemble it with 1/4" latex tubing stretched and tied tight in 3 or 4 places.

Then set the barrel upright onto an end blank and mark the pattern. Add enough to each of the 16 sides to allow for inserting into the stave dado's. Make the barrel-end dado's the same length as the stave dado's are deep. (when you soak the barrel, it's diameter will enlarge slightly) Make the barrel-end dado's just thick enough that they can be inserted into the stave dado's by hand (no hammering to fit) Each corner of the end pieces will have to be slightly rounded.

After making both ends, then tear barrel down and reassemble with both ends in place. Re-apply the latex tubing and then soak the whole thing in water for a couple of days. After drying for a few hours, then use a banding machine and apply metal bands (tightly) about 4" apart.

Oh yeah, some where before soaking, you will need to char the insides of the wood.

[Samogon]

I hate to hijack this barrel thread, but...

But on my forum the talk of the week is a wheat germ liquor that is to die for.
The white is a full flavored whiskey that carries a scotch like flavor straight off the worm and it is so nice.

I can definatly second that. I put some on oak, and its loseing character, though still good. It just doesn't need any addition. The easiest and cheapest whiskey I've ever made also.

Well, testimonials like that got me interested in this recipe. I like cheap and easy, having already spent plenty of time and money on hard and expensive.

I did a little searching for the recipe and turned up three quite different ones from pintoshine. Can you guys post the current iteration that is 'to die for'? Perhaps it could be posted as a new topic under Recipes.

Thanks,
Sam

[drunk2much]

this is kind intresting because i had been wanting to do this for a long time and from scratch ( cutting the tree down to start) but, i had always wonder how i would dry the wood. Until one of my faters co-workers asked for a distilling lesson? My parinoia level just to orange level turns out he spins bowls and was planing on reconstituting his denatured alcohol to dry more wood instead of buying fresh denatured alcohol all the time at 16$ a pop. It makes senes just never though of it, but i dont know how it would work for making a barrel and would any off flavor come over our would yall think they all (majority) dry out