problem with my condensor!!!

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:21 pm

I've been runnin a jacketed condensor, I've stripp run with it, no prob. Today slow stillin whiskey I couldn't get it to stop puttin out vapors, at the coolest I've ever run. I know we have alot of lime, but hell I've only run it 15 (all day) or so runs, I can't see it having a scale so thick it would stop coolin. The output water is not hot, the water tank is cool. So ya think I built up that much scale with that many runs? I follow the same routine every time, any ideas?

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:34 pm

I am guessing the condenser is vertical or nearly. When you run a very efficient condenser slowly, the high proof alcohol vapor hits that cold environment and collapses, real fast. Mine collapses so fast it pops, similar to a steam knock. Whenever that collapse happens, a partial vacuum happens and a partial vacuum causes a cold vapor. The vapor is exactly the same substance as clouds.

Some people complain of the surging of air which causes an uneven flow also.

Here is a small experiment to illustrate the idea.
Put a few drops of water in a glass bottle. Shake it around to coat the interior. Turn the bottle so the opening is down. Light a match, candle or even a lighter and stick it up inside the bottle for a moment. Blow pressure into the bottle and quickly let it out. You should see a "cloud" in the bottle. And by the way it is nearly impossible to condense because it is suspended, atomized water droplets. Alcohol doesn't do this.

My parrot beak has a pressure relief at the top. I have the pressure relief stuffed full of a small piece of stainless steel pot scrubber. The scrubber allows air to pass but most of the vapor will catch on the scrubber. I don't think the vapor has alcohol in it and if it does it is not much. Water is easy to get to do the cloud trick. Alcohol vaporises and condenses too easily because of its volatility.

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:56 pm

Pint you rock. My arm's at a 45 deg angle. It't a 1" reduced to 1/2" at the take off, Suppose I add a 1/2" to 1/4" reducer to slow the vapor escape? The vapor is most deffinetly alchohol, I don't get why this run would act up, I've double distilled sugar washes to make vodka and started at probably 50% abv. I pulled heads, one quart, got unhappy then went fishin with my six year old daughter. The quart's at 80% or so. ???

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:33 am

is it constant vaper or pulsatein. try turnin your wick all the way back. are you able to stop it if you step it up slow. if you aint i would look at ever how you condencein. 100 an getin 160 aint good

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:01 pm

sorry goose, was sleepy. I meant I've done 50% washes, to make vodka and never had the vapor issue, I was runnin the flame so low it kept goin out, usually I keep her the same temp. or pretty close on all washes, this was a maybe 9% wash, so why would I get fo' sho' alch. vapors? my output water was not as warm as normal, pumpin at the same speed as normal? I will set up and run Fri. maybe, if not Sun. afternoon. We'll see, I'd like to have some ideas to check, other than starting over and guessin. it was constant.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:38 am

i aint real sure how them water jackets work but if you smellin likker
an everythang else aint changed i would take that water jacket apart an see how that water runin threw it. sounds bout like one of them eddys or them vortexans for whatever reason. dont no much bout lime exceptin we gotta buy it by the ton.
if you aint gonna take it apart slow your water way down an see if it changes vaper

bushido · Post by **bushido** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:21 am

Perhaps you pump has lost pressure. Check the filter if your pump has one, or check for blockage in the screen if it doesn't. Your pump may still be working, but at a lower pressure, thus, not driving the coolant through fast enough. Is the jacket on your lie cool or hot in the middle?
Even if your tank was a little warm, with your heat turned way down like you said, your condenser should still be able to knock it down.
Try taking your input & output lines off the lie and blow some compressed air through it. Then try blowing air through your lines. If you have good air flow, I would suspect the pump.
Also, if using quick connects to snap your lines onto the condenser, make sure they are on the line going in the right direction. They have an arrow on them pointing in the direction of the water flow.
Gotta be something simple MRD, it worked for you before

Rebel_Yell · Post by **Rebel_Yell** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:05 am

msrorysdad wrote:sorry goose, was sleepy. I meant I've done 50% washes, to make vodka and never had the vapor issue, I was runnin the flame so low it kept goin out, usually I keep her the same temp. or pretty close on all washes, this was a maybe 9% wash, so why would I get fo' sho' alch. vapors? my output water was not as warm as normal, pumpin at the same speed as normal? I will set up and run Fri. maybe, if not Sun. afternoon. We'll see, I'd like to have some ideas to check, other than starting over and guessin. it was constant.

You had a higher water content in your condensed solution. This requires more cooling energy.

oakie · Post by **oakie** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:08 am

If you can't figure out what the problem is. Just add a thumper.

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:48 pm

guys, I'm runnin again on Sunday afternoon. Gonna start from step one. I run my water to a "swamp cooler" it drips into a cooler, so I can check the temp. Maybe some odd vortexan, will keep yall posted. I will add more wash, thanks Deathwish

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:17 pm

thanks Reb. The more I pondered the more I suspect you are correct. I've never run anything under 10% and those are always ten gal. this was 5 gal of 9% or so.Thanks guys

Post by **Tater** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:25 pm

Usally adding a bit of copper packing on out lit side of worm will solve that problem.

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:01 am

I've got another 5gal wash I'll add, then will run on Sun. I'll keep ya'll posted

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:17 pm

O.k. added the other 5 gal wash and it ran great, still runnin. I think mayhaps low abv on my one wash, plus only half my normal wash was a bit much to ask of my still. She's runnin purty now.

hornedrhodent · Post by **hornedrhodent** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:20 am

msrorysdad wrote:I've been runnin a jacketed condensor, I've stripp run with it, no prob. Today slow stillin whiskey I couldn't get it to stop puttin out vapors, at the coolest I've ever run. I know we have alot of lime, but hell I've only run it 15 (all day) or so runs, I can't see it having a scale so thick it would stop coolin. The output water is not hot, the water tank is cool. So ya think I built up that much scale with that many runs? I follow the same routine every time, any ideas?

Are you sure it's not CO2 being boiled out of your wash and carrying the smell of your whiskey. There may be other volatile esters and such which wont condense at room temperature but can still be seen disturbing the refractive index of the air around the outlet of your condenser.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:00 am

what kind of outfit you runin

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:26 am

a "pot still" I've got a 2" column, it's 18" long, insulated. It works quite well. I know I'll get the frown, I think it was alchohol, it burned quick, almost unable to see it.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:03 pm

dont no nothin about colums but if it burned it was likker.
frown hell . if you held a flame up to vapers comein out of your condencer while it was makein likker you need to say a pray.
you got any idea how close you was to your maker.

dont do that again!

possum · Post by **possum** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:07 pm

WHAT GOOGE SAID!!!!

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:16 pm

As long as the condenser is evacuated of oxygen, could it be a huge problem? I've worked crews welding on bulk fuel tanks at refineries, as long as they are sufficiently full, we've evacuated 12" fuel lines with dry ice and welded on them. I would not ever recommend alot of the things I do. however, I figured as long as the column was pushin out, it would be tough to force the oxygen up the pipe, sorta like flarin excess natural gas. Once again, I would never recommend doin as I do. Plus I probably wouldn't do it again, I just had to. Oh, this would be a great topic for the brain trust we have on this site. What are the REAL chances of a catastrophic incident, with stills, heated with an open flame, or immersions elements?

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:32 pm

did you check any of that before you held that flame up there.
what about the likker comein out in liquid form when that vaper fired up
term life is afordable these days itll help your next of kin if you dont take em with you.

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Tue May 01, 2007 4:49 pm

well, now that you mention it, there was about a 2" air gap, it was pushin the vapor pretty hard, I thought at first it was water. I checked the area for flamables, other than the drip, changed out the catch bottle, lowered it to about 12" from the take off, I didn't just hop up and toss a match to it. I try to run in a well ventilated area, with a fan pushin any vapors away from my area. Nothing we do is ever "safe" I try to be as safe as possible, while still being a human. As for most of the welding in refineries, I figure you'ld be safer swimmin with the sharks in sirloin undies, (very unsafe, always under the gun) That's why I quit. I checked, and was sufficiently sure of my safety, calculated risks are still risks.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:14 pm

trust me dont do that again

bushido · Post by **bushido** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:17 pm

I always run exhaust at my distillate output, no exepmtions. I power vent. We tend to become lax with experience, but this can be a deadly error. Just because you got away with it 20 times before, does not mean that you will get away with it this one time. I blew up a kitchen once doing the same thing I had always done, but because my procedure was wrong, it caught up to me. I have never made that mistake again, I err to the side of safety. I cook in a blast room, and I know this is over kill, but I feel confident in this environment, no one can convince me it is over kill. You will find that I ask a lot of stupid questions sometimes concerning safety, but in my opinion, safety is all that matters. Be safe, you only live the once!

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:47 pm

I've read and read and read again and I still can't find the condenser dimensions.
Did you say it was 45° and connected to an 18" column that was insulated?
You said it was 1" diameter reduced down to 1/2". How long is the jacketed section? And What diameter is in the jacketed section?
Maybe you need to run your condenser through these calculations ans see what is is made of.
http://homedistiller.org/cond_calc.htm

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:01 pm

it's a 2" column tee'd at 2" then a 45 deg, reduced to 1" the jacket is 1 1/2" over that for 18". I never had this problem before, however I never ran such a small batch so low in alchohol. I think maybe it's like reb said, too little to keep at the rate I normally run, and not enough abv to run at the rate my heat source will go down to? does that make sense? I wrapped the 2" column with pipe insulation the other day, was thinkin that had a hand in it, I ran it this last go round, both ways and had no issues. I just won't run 5 gal washes in that still.

msrorysdad · Post by **msrorysdad** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:12 am

As for my attitude about our safety, the more I think about it , the worse I feel. We should all strive to be as safe as humanly possible with ANY hobby, or actually anything we do. Thanks guys for the input. Please stay safe, it's only funny IF WE ALL GET TO WATCH, and no a video on you tube won't cover it.

Home Distiller

problem with my condensor!!!

problem with my condensor!!!

Re: problem with my condensor!!!