uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Mon May 21, 2007 11:00 am

It depends on what im running,but on average I dont put the first 3-4 bottles in the mix.Its funny how it all blends together.The heads I put in,are mostly by taste.I leave out the sharp tasting ones,and when i taste them getting milder,I put them in.I dont worry about proof until after i make my cuts.If its too high for putting on oak,I will adjust it,if making whiskey.Also I dont make my cuts until The bottles have aired out some.
I usually cover them with coffee filters,and let them set,till the next day.
wineo

Samogon · Post by **Samogon** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:18 pm

Virginia Gentleman wrote:was asking more about mixing heads and hearts from the run.

Most of the whiskey-making info I've seen says to mix in the early tails, not the heads. But obviously, you might like a sweeter whiskey, rather than one that's maybe a bit 'grainy' tasting.

Intergalactic Captain · Tue May 22, 2007 7:50 am

Just started my first batch of the season last night - 50lb cracked corn, 50lb sugar topped to a hand below the rim of a 55gallon barrel. I did the math up and expect somewhere from 8-9%ABV based on about a 40 gallon wash volume. My yeast starter died down a couple days ago, so it didn't take off like I had planned...About hours in and I've got a nice gentle ferment, should be going good by tomorrow. I plan to run it Friday, as long as the weather holds it should be done by then.

One thing, though, is that this is way the hell more expensive than last year...I had to pay $.44/lb for sugar versus ~$.30/lb last year. That, and I actually had to buy corn - My neighbor moved away, and I can no longer get free corn from the farm...At least it's cheap, $7.50/50lb bag. Total came to just uner $30 for this batch. On the bright side, though, the only other thing I had to pay for was solder an a handful of pipe fittings for the still, the rest of the materials were free.

Was at a fire at my buddies house the other night, though, an scored a few logs of apple wood - Turns out we'd been burning the stuff all night and I managed to save the last few at the tail end of the festivities. I'm planning on experimenting a bit this season - Last year all I had was maple to age on, Now I've got apple and possibly some oak (provided it's not "piss oak", the tree came down in the last ice storm and I haven't had a chance to check it out yet) to mess with. I've also got a decent fridge to distress-age in - I figure ~6 gallons and the same amount out switched up every day...Everything else is going into a barrel as soon as I can scrape together the cash - I can get a full size barrel for $60, it's just the shipping that'll kill me.

...But, I must say, UJSM is where its at for those who don't want to mash for whatever reason. I've had bad experiences with sugar based washes before, but this is far from it...Whatever the corn does to mellow out that sugar vibe, it does it damn well...That, and my friends can't get enough of it - Nobody around here sells a decent tasting corn liquor, and this stuff (properly made, of course) is hands down the best tasting spirit I've ever had the pleasure to drink...For anyone out there just getting into the hobby, do yourself a favor and make up some UJSM.

homebuilt · Post by **homebuilt** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:06 pm

try to find another farm or even a grain elevator. around here ya can get a 100# bag for about $8. cheaper direct from farmer and even cheaper if ya buy in quantity.

PUGIDOGS · Post by **PUGIDOGS** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:21 pm

...But, I must say, UJSM is where its at for those who don't want to mash for whatever reason. I've had bad experiences with sugar based washes before, but this is far from it...Whatever the corn does to mellow out that sugar vibe, it does it damn well...That, and my friends can't get enough of it - Nobody around here sells a decent tasting corn liquor, and this stuff (properly made, of course) is hands down the best tasting spirit I've ever had the pleasure to drink...For anyone out there just getting into the hobby, do yourself a favor and make up some UJSM.

I concure. In addition all my UJSM is aged on toasted apple wood...Pugi

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:48 am

Here's another convert. I was a little concerned because prior to oaking, the smell wasn't something I liked (bear in mind it was only 2nd gen).On another note, I only got 3.5litres @ cut down to 40% from 6 kilo's of sugar (over 2 runs), maybe I was a bit harsh in my cuts. Maybe it didn't ferment out, it's getting pretty cold around these parts.

Post by **blanikdog** » Sun May 27, 2007 6:54 pm

Like pugidogs, I agree entirely, but then we both have canine tendencies.

My first batch of UJSM is simply superb and it's only been on oak for a month or so. I've got hold of some pear wood and will try that next time, unless I get messages telling me not to use it. I wonder what lemon wood would taste like?

blanikdog

newts · Post by **newts** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:50 am

I am getting organised for my next round australia trip .
I wish to take 5 litres of UJSM back set with me.I think I can keep its temp down to about 20 c, and wish to mash abrew every month or so,
Can any one tell me if it will stay viable.
I will be pleased to recieve any advice
Regards Newts

Old Blue · Post by **Old Blue** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:30 pm

Well life got in the way of my first generation UJSM. The ferment stopped about a 10 days ago and I will not have time to run it until this weekend. It has definitely been sealed up and the vapor lock is intact, do you all think it will be OK or do you suggest I trash it and start over? I haven't opened it up yet, I don't want to risk getting something in it until I am ready to run it Saturday or Sunday.

Since all I am really after from this run is the backset I am hoping it is OK.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:04 pm

If it smells ok,and not rotten smelling,and doesnt look bad,{mold}I would rack it to another container and cover the corn with water,and add a pound of sugar to it,to get your yeast going again.
wineo

Virginia Gentleman · Post by **Virginia Gentleman** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:41 am

wineo wrote:It depends on what im running,but on average I dont put the first 3-4 bottles in the mix.Its funny how it all blends together.The heads I put in,are mostly by taste.I leave out the sharp tasting ones,and when i taste them getting milder,I put them in.I dont worry about proof until after i make my cuts.If its too high for putting on oak,I will adjust it,if making whiskey.Also I dont make my cuts until The bottles have aired out some.
I usually cover them with coffee filters,and let them set,till the next day.
wineo

Good advice wineo, I am mixing them up based on taste, experience and a little on proof. I figured this was a matter of preference for everyone, and really where the real art of distilling comes in. That's certainly true of commercial distilleries who have master distillers and have been mixing cuts for centuries in some cases.

If anyone else has their own experiences in blending cuts for aging, would love to hear them.

Newts - your mash should stay viable. I often go 1-2 months between interations.

Old Blue - as Wineo said, your mash should be fine especially if you have kept the air lock on. Go by smell, taste and look. I've had fully fermented sour mashes sit for an extra month in some cases with air lock on and in a cool place (60 deg or so).

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:15 am

newts, if I need to store backset, I pour it hot into a corny keg. seal it up and put co2 on it, like I was force carbonating a beer. Works like a charm and lasts for a long time.

Ole · Post by **Ole** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:04 am

I have a question/concern:

I'm currently fermenting my 3rd generation. Added replacement corn, 33% backset, and 7lbs sugar at each subsequent ferment. I'm really happy about the proceeds of the first two runs.

This one is fermenting much differently than the first two. The first two had a good bit of foam on the top of the beer. This one has none. It's still definately fermenting and bubbling, it's just there is no tannish/grey colored foam on the top.

Does this mean I need to add more corn to the ferment?

newts · Post by **newts** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:34 am

Thanks for your replies, as I will only be risking a few dollars in consumables and a little time,I will treat my backset as well as i can and run it
Regards to all newts

Post by **blanikdog** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:39 pm

nzbourbonhead wrote:hmm 80 abv in a pot still ???? are you sure its not 80 proof? No way can I get 80 abv from one run in my potstill

I get around 72abv from a very basic pot still. I admit that 80abv is not 72, but 80 proof is only 40abv. You should get more than that, IMHO.

Aidas · Post by **Aidas** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:31 pm

I regularly achieve 67 ABV on first runs of UJSM (obviously, during certain parts of the run). A second run would easily hit 80% at some point. My shot glass for the alcoholmeter is too short to measure 80%, but I have measured to 75% (when it hits bottom).

That said, strength of distillate is not the point when using a potstill -- quality of taste is what it's all about.

Aidas

Post by **blanikdog** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:34 pm

Aidas wrote:That said, strength of distillate is not the point when using a potstill -- quality of taste is what it's all about.

I agree 100%.

When I say 72abv I mean - obviously - the very first of the hearts and slowly reducing to 40abv when I cut and begin saving backset.

Virginia Gentleman · Post by **Virginia Gentleman** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:52 pm

Aidas wrote:I regularly achieve 67 ABV on first runs of UJSM (obviously, during certain parts of the run). A second run would easily hit 80% at some point. My shot glass for the alcoholmeter is too short to measure 80%, but I have measured to 75% (when it hits bottom).

That said, strength of distillate is not the point when using a potstill -- quality of taste is what it's all about.

Aidas

Ditto here. I get in the 60s on first runs, and 85+ on second runs of UJSM in a pot still.

5 gal. is put up in a charred oak barrel at 60% (double run and diluted), will have the first sip in December.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:01 pm

My UJSM has stuck (about 1050), probably because I havn't changed any of the corn out yet. I didn't change it because nothing floated to the top after fermentation so I thought it was alright. Will adding more corn give it the kick in the guts it needs? I appreciate I can throw in any number of things but I don't want to change the flavour profile.

I'm fearful that I've lost all my hard earned backset. What can I do? Maybe more yeast?

mtnwalker2 · Post by **mtnwalker2** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:48 pm

My corn always settles- cap falls- after fermenting finishes. I will then have a layer of pale grains, over a layer of still bright yellow. I scoop off the pale, immediately after racking, feed those to the chickens, and replace same volume with fresh corn. I add AG enzymes to each new run. Not neccessary, but does convert a lot more of the corn sugars.

Hope you can save your built up backset, but will let someone more knowledgeable guide you on that.

I have some happy chickens.

Post by **Husker** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:04 am

CoopsOz wrote:My UJSM has stuck (about 1050), probably because I havn't changed any of the corn out yet. I didn't change it because nothing floated to the top after fermentation so I thought it was alright. Will adding more corn give it the kick in the guts it needs? I appreciate I can throw in any number of things but I don't want to change the flavour profile.

I'm fearful that I've lost all my hard earned backset. What can I do? Maybe more yeast?

I doubt lack of addition of corn will "stick" it. The corn adds very little to the mix, other than a little yeast food, and "some" EtOH from the slow breakdown. Too much backset will low the PH too much. I did that once, and "learned better". If it is just the PH being too low, it "will" finish, but takes a long time (2 or 3 weeks). It could be you dumped your backset in too hot, and simply killed your yeast bed. If that is the case, you can restart some yeast and salvage your run. Was 1050 your SG and then it simply stuck there, or was your SG higher than this, and it worked a bit, then stuck? Also, what is the ambient temp? Is it pretty low? If so, it may simply be working really slowly. I do not know how far south you are, but being winter time for you, this may be what is up.

H.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:05 pm

I didn't measure OG but I know it definitely started, I left it for about 3 weeks before I measured the 1050. It has gotten pretty cold around here during the night (it was 1 Deg C the other morning) but I have my fermenter on a heat pad, wrapped in an electric blanket and then covered with a doona, so that's not the problem. I was under the impression that the corn was the nutrient source, in any case, I racked it into a spare bucket yesterday, scooped and replaced about 1/3 of the corn and made another starter. I'll see how it goes.

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:16 am

Aidas wrote:I regularly achieve 67 ABV on first runs of UJSM (obviously, during certain parts of the run). A second run would easily hit 80% at some point. My shot glass for the alcoholmeter is too short to measure 80%, but I have measured to 75% (when it hits bottom).

I just achieved the spirit run from 4 UJSM 50 liters mashes.
Wonderfull result : 24 liters of 79 %abv spirit ! Extra corn taste...
I diluted to 62 %abv and let age with home made "oak fingers" and 4 liters of "8 months aged" UJSM's spirit from a previous run...

Color is a bit lighter than on the pict.

defcon4 · Post by **defcon4** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:19 am

Wow, the color on those looks awesome. How heavily did you char your oak and how much did you use per liter? Thanks.

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:46 pm

theholymackerel wrote:Those are beautiful demijons Bujapat.

Here in Belgium, we find such demijons in every do it yourself store for 20 € (± 33 US $). A plastic basket is provided for handling, but I think they've a better look without that plastic!

defcon4 wrote:Wow, the color on those looks awesome. How heavily did you char your oak and how much did you use per liter?

I putted 17 "oak fingers" for 34 liters of spirit (approximate area of each "finger" : 80 cm2)... They are toasted following the Aidas's method : 2 hours in the kitchen oven at 200°C.

Aidas · Post by **Aidas** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:12 am

Bujapat wrote:They are toasted following the Aidas's method : 2 hours in the kitchen oven at 200°C.

I think this is the first time that someone else has called something I do a "method". The Aidas Method -- I think I'll patent it, because it certainly does have a nice ring to it.

thanks Bujapat!

Aidas

Bujapat · Post by **Bujapat** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:45 am

I usually collect distilate from 80 to 60 %abv, so the average turns around 70 %abv...

Post by **HookLine** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:59 am

theholymackerel wrote:Those are beautiful demijons Bujapat.

Sure are. And the stuff in 'em is pretty nice looking too.

Paxton · Post by **Paxton** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:43 pm

I've had it with Sugar Washes trying to imitate Sour Mash, so over the next month or so, I'll have a go at this.

A bit of a stupid question here, but when you do the First Distill, what do you do with the Distillate? Do you blend the Distillate back into the Wash, or do you blend the First Distill with the Second Distill?

Where in Australia can you be expected to get Cracked Corn?

Post by **Husker** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:58 pm

Paxton wrote:I've had it with Sugar Washes trying to imitate Sour Mash, so over the next month or so, I'll have a go at this.

A bit of a stupid question here, but when you do the First Distill, what do you do with the Distillate? Do you blend the Distillate back into the Wash, or do you blend the First Distill with the Second Distill?

Where in Australia can you be expected to get Cracked Corn?

This somewhat depends upon your still.

If you have a TRUE pot still (or a valved type refluxing column that you can insulate well enough, and that you can assure you have 100% take off), then usually, you run a first stripping run on each "mash". Then when you have enough low wines (the 1st distillate), you combine these, and distill slower, and take careful cuts.

If you have a reflux, which you cant really control (internal reflux, or something which is not insulated, and thus refluxes too much), then frequently, you will be better off simply taking it slow on the first run, and making proper cuts (thus single running it). If you run like this, then simply take the whole 1st run (your sweet run), and dump that 1st distillate into your 2nd (sour) run. that 2nd run will be larger than your 1st run (since it is your first run, plus the sour run). From that point on, simply dump your heads and tails into the next run, and continue to "single" run things.

I personally would recommend a simple pot still for running flavored drinks, such as UJSM, real whiskey, rums, etc. That way, you can get really good flavor coming through, and I find that cuts are easier to make doing a "2-run" process (combine "strip" runs and do a 2nd product run).

H.