need to finish this -

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:01 pm

Would anyone here have a unit that looks like this -

http://encode.com/exec/npage2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I have a few questions I'd like to ask about this unit. My friend has made one (almost). He has the main body and column and condenser shell made, but now he needs to put a coil inside of the condenser shell. The instructions he has are really crappy. I'm wondering if anyone here would know how the 1/4" Cu line is sealed as it passes through the abs condenser body.

I was also wondering how the top of the column is coupled to the condenser inlet. Is it just a rubber plug in the column, with a plastic hose passing into the condenser coil ?

If anyone here could please answer these questions about this unit, that would be great. It's almost finished, and it would be really something to put it to use one of these days.

Post by **HookLine** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:37 am

That link don't work for me.

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:00 am

It works for me, not a bad link either...I've never seen that site before.

Rudi · Post by **Rudi** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:25 am

I'd piss the plastic condensor off make a simple liebig condensor
1/2" inside 3/4" cu pipe

Drill a 1/2" hole close to the top of the column solder in your liebig bend down at around 45*.

Put the two reflux through column condensor lines at the top of the column.

Put a copper cap on top with a hole to fit your thermometer.

Dont use plastic in your vapour path you don't want to be drinking all the toxic crap that comes outa the plastic with hot ethanol vapour.
Rubber is not a good idea either.

Rudi

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:30 am

Thanks for this information

Quite a revelation for me me. This guy is within an hours drive of my house
and certainly a new convenient source of equipment.

re the still. I have thought of having a welder with the proper skills, simply weld together two, say 16 qt.. SS pots to create a 32 qt boiler. I'm surprised he is using plastic (high grade sanitary).

$550.00 will build you a lot of stills as many on this site will advise, if you are prepared to gather the materials yourself and try your own skills and/or a trusted welder.

G

Post by **Husker** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:28 am

I would stay FAR away from these stills.

1. the price is REALLY high. The cost to make these stills is about 1/3 of the price being asked.

2. Run, run run away from that plastic condenser. As many others have stated, HOT high proof (90% or so from the reflux), will strip out MUCH bad stuff from the plastic (or rubber).

It also appears that the top connecting tube is clear poly. I would steer a wide berth from this persons "stills".

H.

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:41 am

I wonder how long that rubber grommet holding the thermometer in the boiler will last...

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:15 pm

Hey Rudi - Would you have any plans/pics of this condenser ? Seems I've seen a drawing of one around here. I believe I also read somewhere that spacing between the inner and jacket is important/related to performance.

Anyway, yes, that seems possible - probably the easiest way to get it functional. Doesn't sound too difficult. I'd like to determine some dimensions, etc.

The tubes that pass through the column are already there, along with a bunch of Cu scrubbers packed in between them. I'll take a pic of what I have, sometime in the next day or so.

I got a price on a condenser like the one in the link from Bob Sebert, and I don't think its worth it. The Liebig sounds pretty simple. I think I saw something like that on one of the Bokakob designs (did I spell that right ?) designs. What type of place would sell fittings like you have described ?

you guys are right about the rubber bung and plastic tube at the top of the column, I wonder how its working for the pile of these that have been made already.

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:36 pm

this link shows (I think ) the condenser you are talking about.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... eCh9a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So, the vapor path is through the inside/sloping tube? And the cooling water feeds into and out of the space between the inner and outer tubing ?

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:30 pm

I would like to make you aware of one very important thing. That is as long as you use clean water, white sugar and my Turbo Pure Distillers Yeast you will get 100% percent Ethanol Alcohol. I have seen the lab reports from my supplier. Also he has a worldwide business and he certainly isn't trying to poison the world. If you decide to try some old fashion methods of making moonshine remember this. If you use a vegetable, grain or fruit what is developed for the first cupful in 5 gallons of mash will give off methanol alcohol and that is when you hear the stories of people going blind.

I REALLY

dislike this. 100% ethanol - misleading at best.

As for the 1/3 price to make this - hey, that is valid. Normal markup for a product is 3x the price. That is what you are paying for - him to make it.

birdwatcher · Post by **birdwatcher** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:41 pm

Alchemist wrote:

As for the 1/3 price to make this - hey, that is valid. Normal markup for a product is 3x the price. That is what you are paying for - him to make it.

Absolutely, the guy is entitled to a profit.

G

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:51 pm

I REALLY dislike this. 100% ethanol - misleading at best.

Taken in the context in which it was meant, he is trying to say that using his ingredients, you shouldn't get any methanol. It is worded very badly though.

Of the ethanol content you get that fraction is usually 100% pure isn't it?

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm

The way I read it (with a sarcastic twist) is:

"My ingredients are SO GREAT that if you use them, you can blow off all that fussy crap you read about Methanol poisoning."

It just seems a very dangerous precedent to say if you use the "right" ingredients then you don't have to worry about methanol. IMO that leads to "just a little of this - oh it won't make a different" attitude and a real safety issue. Besides, I don't buy that using his Turbo yeast guarantee 100% ethanol. I might buy that under lab conditions methanol production approaches zero, but not in tom, dick or harry's kitchen where there is a lack of control of conditions.

You tell me - would you use the ingredients he lists and not toss the first 50-100 mls?

Post by **Husker** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:57 pm

Methanol is not the only reason to ditch the first X ml of output. There are other things there that are also much more poisonous than ethanol (which itself if a poison).

Why would people put any faith into someone making such outlandish claims as "use this technique to get 100% ethanol". As soon as someone shows such outright ignorance (or outright dishonesty), why would you even look further at what they have to SELL. Comon peeps. Use the noggin God gave you.

H.

Post by **bronzdragon** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:00 pm

Unfortunately people who are just starting out, and may have not found this and the parent site, may take the claims for true.

~r~

Alchemist · Post by **Alchemist** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:06 pm

That was my point exactly Husker. I wasn't even going to go into the odd "cracker" (you crack oil, not shine) or why he thought it necessary to run his cooling lines through the reflux column.

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:19 pm

hey guys - I took a couple of shots of what I'm starting with tonite, but can someone here explain how to upload photos to the web ? I think all I need to know is an address to upload them to. Then I can show you guys where I'm at now and ask some specific questions about the partial unit that I have.

Post by **Husker** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:52 pm

bronzdragon wrote:Unfortunately people who are just starting out, and may have not found this and the parent site, may take the claims for true.

~r~

That is why people like the owner of that site, are (IMHO) scammers. They scam the unknowledged, and it can be a VERY dangerous problem.

H.

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:14 pm

ok - I'm not sure if this will work, but I'm going to try adding links to a few pics that are in a photobucket. Here goes -

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee16 ... tillc2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This is what I tried to make a couple of years ago - the instructions were so bad that I couldn't finish it. I still don't have the condenser finished I actually have made the outer jacket out of abs. The coil would fit inside the abs jacket. The abs would contain the cooling water. I tried making a coil of 1/2" soft copper, and it kinda folded up on me at various places, so I gave up on that. I have about a 4 to 6 ft pc of soft copper, 1/4" tubing that I would like to try in my next attempt.

Here's what I have so far - http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee16 ... 001106.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It is a boiler made of two stainless pots welded together. It has 3/8" ? Cu tubes soldered into the column, for cooling water to flow through. The column is 2" Cu tubing, about 28" high. It presently has an open top.

Here's a shot of the column base. It is a square piece of 3/8" (or maybe 1/2" Cu brazed/soldered to the column. If I keep this unit, I will need a gasket here. I would like some suggestions on what would be the best thing to use
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee16 ... 001107.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So my questions are : Is there a way to salvage what I have and still come out with something decent ? I was thinking that adding a condenser to this might not be that difficult.

I think this link will get you so that you can view whatever shots I have, and their descriptions -
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/stillwannabe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:36 pm

this would be very easy to complete as a elliptical inline head bokakob.
As far as the gasket for the base, I would use fused cork sheet. It has no glue and is all natural cork bark.

for sealing the top to the boiler I would use a thick flour paste.
Here is a link to a lot of discussion to a elliptical inline head.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:07 pm

thanks for the info so far. I don't know why I can't see the sketch refererred to in the link, but all I have is a little red square where the image should be. Is there a link that someone could include that shows the elliptical head design ?

pintoshine · Post by **pintoshine** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:24 am

The picture doesn't exist anymore.
This is the original that inspired it though.
http://homedistiller.org/image/drawing_ ... 20EL-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This is a very simple but extremely effective design. The have been some improvements to it such as using two elliptical plates on opposing sides. Another improvement was to shape the bottom plate to drip into the center of the packing below.
Of course your through tubes will be of no good but they are decorative.
Here is another suggestion for your design.
moonshine-still.com
the one on the left is similar to what you already have. I owned one of those 10 years ago or so. It is easy to build but not that easy to learn to operate. The instructions on the site are some of the most complete I've seen.

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:28 pm

So today I coiled some 1/4" copper for the condenser -

http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee16 ... 001113.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I would like to make the condenser as shown here (thanks for the info)

http://homedistiller.org/image/drawing_ ... 20EL-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

but I have a few questions - if I add the condenser as shown, is the top of the column really closed off ? Isn't that dangerous ? Where do all the steam/vapors go ? Could I leave it open, the way the Mini still is ?

and, where I could I find a piece of copper plate for the take-off valve ? Who would sell that, or what readily available object could I take apart that might have something like that inside it ?

showrguy · Post by **showrguy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:58 pm

terry, sllllllooooowwwwww down, yep gettin yer panties all bound up...
sorry, i don't have an outfit like your building, so i can't give you 100% firm/good advice, i'm sure it will soon follow this response though..
it seems like yer in a big hurry though ????

CoopsOz · Post by **CoopsOz** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:12 pm

Don't cap your column, yes it is dangerous. As for the elliptical plate, allot of people just cut some off the column, split it and beat it flat. Cut your angle with two hacksaw blades on the hacksaw, slide in the flattened piece of tube and solder around. If you wish to clean it up, just file off the excess.

duds2u · Post by **duds2u** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:13 pm

Terry,
The easiest way to get some plate copper for your slant plates is to cut off a section of your 2" pipe, heat it up til it cherry red to anneal it and then run a saw cut down the side and unroll it. What yo have now is a piece of flate plate copper that is exactly two hacksaw blades thick.

Why is this important? It's because that is how you do the cuts in your pipe for the slant plates. Fit your hacksaw with two blades, make your cut and slide in the plate, mark it off and then you have the eliptical shape already for cutting. Remember to do your spillway cuts on the plate before you solder it in.
My recommendation is to use two overlapping plates as in one of Alex's other designs. That's the design I have and it works fine

terryt · Post by **terryt** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:19 pm

thanks for the excellent info guys - I have a few more questions, if that's ok -

condenser coil - How much clearance should you have between the condenser coil od and the inner wall of the condenser shell ?

Does it matter if larger tubing is used at the condenser/top of the column ?

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