reflux vs. pot revisited.

belialNZ · Post by **belialNZ** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:49 am

Well..

Up to my 5th generation UJSM (run 2 fermentations and alternate them), and FINALLY made the decision to stop using a de-tuned reflux and try a straight up pot distillation.

I still have to wait a while for my last batch to finish aging in the barrel to really see how well it went after aging, but I can already smell and taste a significant difference in the distillate (after heads it started coming off at 70% and dropped to 60% before I decided the taste had... bad bits.. and switched to collecting tails)

From reading posts from other pot distillers I get the impression I should keep the result and re-run once I have more, but to be honest, I'm tempted to age a couple of litres as is, because the % is "right", and the taste seems significantly stronger than my previous UJSM runs already.

I guess I'm just worried that a second distillation will strip the taste away.

As-Ol-Joe · Post by **As-Ol-Joe** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:20 am

What are "bad bits"?

A 2nd distillation will raise the ABV but you will lose some of the flavor.

belialNZ · Post by **belialNZ** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:24 pm

bad bits.. well, a bit of a bitter biting taste, right at the back of the tongue. It smelt ok, but I tend to dilute it and taste occasionally when I think I'm getting near the end as I have had to re-run a batch in the past when I didn't get it right and it all had that bitter aftertaste.

defcon4 · Post by **defcon4** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:43 pm

If you made a heads cut, you could keep the distillate that was from 60%-70% as hearts and age it.

This is weird place to post this but this is how I do my pot still runs when I want to maximize flavor.

First run:
-I put the wash in the still, collect slowly, as if I was doing a spirit run,
-I discard heads and foreshots by smell (the sweet smelling stuff)
-I collect slowly in 150mL amounts (what my alcometer tube can hold)
-I keep any distillate that is greater than 60%ABV (usually get 70-62%), this is the hearts from the first run, everything collected after that is usually 50% ABV and lower (tails)
-I then turn up the heat and collect all the tails down to ~30%ABV

Second run:
-I put all the remaining tails from the first run in the still (I have a lot of tails now because the "spirit run" on the first run yielded a very low volume)
-I heat up and collect slowly in small amounts again
-I keep distillate in small 150mL cuts, I usually get cuts ranging 85%-62%

-Any cut >80% is pretty flavorless, so I take my first tails cut (Ex: last 2 cuts were 150mL of 61% and 150mL of 53%,, the 53% cut is my first tails cut) I use the first tails cut to "water down" any high proof cut >80% down to 78%-80%ABV, my guess is that this makes it a more flavorful cut.

Blending/aging:
-I then take the hearts cut from the first run, and the hearts cuts from the second run, combine them together, and age on charred oak. This is still a new method to me and I'm trying to master the aging process, but I think this method is working well so far.

Post by **Dnderhead** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:49 pm

I just distill to prof i want to keg-age at i find more taste
let it air out and git some age then sample then if its off
I can re distill usually at 70%-80%

belialNZ · Post by **belialNZ** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:50 am

Well, the previous batch in the barrel reached a point where I decided to drain it off and replace with the new pot-distilled stuff.

Only reason I felt like posting an update is because of experiencing my first ever "Its better than store bought" comment.

A friend came over, and sampled the latest bottled product, and said the magical words

, I was very very happy.

Oh well, got the pot-distilled (and the white dog tasted much more tasteful than the detuned reflux distilled product) in a barrel now... guess I just have to wait to see if its significantly better. Based on tasting the unaged distilate, I'm pretty confident.

Post by **Husker** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:10 am

I find the spirits I make in pot still vs detuned offset head still to be significantly better.

H.

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:37 am

I agree with husker.I built a nixon stone offset when I first started,and I never use it anymore,and turned it into a column still with a leibeg.I still like my potstill better for everything.I even use it for vodka,and my vodka taste better than the refluxed stuff.Theres nothing better than running 3 or 4 times in a potstill for purity with flavor.

belialNZ · Post by **belialNZ** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:33 am

Well wineo, with my so-far limited experience with pot distilling.. so far, I could not agree more.

I just did my 2nd (I'm still new) pot distillation, this time with a wash made using apples (nope, no seeds

).

The apple flavour came through a lot clearer, its still very subtle, but its detectable. Using the detuned reflux, it was basically a vodka that came out the other end (taste wise).

I'm now getting this... itch... to make my own still head. I think the still spirits boiler is probably fine, but have a urge to make my own head... this hobby is kind of addictive, you just keep wanting to find ways to make your product better

Anyhow, back to this apple wash distillation, basically an apple brandy... is it a good idea to age it on oak like a whiskey??? or will that kill any hint of apple with the oak taste?

Its just.. it still seems like an apple flavoured vodka (Just had a glass after cleaning up the still and putting it away).

I guess I'm looking for a fruit wash that really carries over a good flavour.. I see a lot of reference to peaches, and I wish they where currently in season here so I could try it out.

goose eye · Post by **goose eye** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:25 am

grape

so im tole

punkin · Post by **punkin** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:44 am

Can't answer your question on the apples, but i can give you a tip from my playing with peaches.
My peach brandy was very much more complex and suited to my taste (and others) after some exposure to oak.
When i used the same ok sticks as i use with my grain spirits it took a LOT less time to develop enough oak flavour and aroma. Yoy could see the colour coming in to it within minutes and i was wanting to take the sticks out within a day and a hlaf to 2 days.
The colour was only a pale straw, but the aroma and flavour of the oak was fully developed and complementry.

So my tip would be to try a bottle of each side by side, but keep a very close eye (and nose) on the oak.

Or try what goose said and some other types of wood (grape).

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:47 am

I prefer to use more fruit of the same kind the brandys made from,and do a maceration in the booze to flavor it up.It may be my setup,but I never seem to get enough fruit flavor to come through the still.Look up Taters fruit liquer posts.He has it mastered.