Light rum

[Uncle Jesse]

I'm working on one right now. I think there's a bit of confusion as to what makes a light vs. heavy rum so when I get my recipe and process down better I'll share some hints.

[wineo]

Ive got a lite one going also.Its in the R+D stages also.It will be another week before its ready to run.I used a mix of raw sugar,brown sugar,and molassus with distillers yeast at 10%.
I think its a matter of getting the right % of different sugars and molassus right.If mine is good,Ill share the recipe.

[Uncle Jesse]

It's my understanding that fast and clean ferments are the most important element of a light rum. The heavier rums are fermented differently and the backset is often allowed to start a ferment on wild yeasts. I'm experimenting so I'm just now starting to delve into this.

[Uncle Jesse]

First run of light rum is almost ready to distill. No backset in this one so it's a starting batch. Of course the smell of this is very sweet and nice.

First run of heavy rum is fermenting. Again, no backset yet so I'm experimenting. I took about 5 gallons of liquid and added in my molasses. I heated to 158F and adjusted pH to 4.6. I held that for 30 mins then let it cool to settle out solids.

I cooled it to room temps and set it outside all afternoon on a beautifully clear but windy day, then put it into a fermenter. 2 days later I had a decent ferment going on natural yeast...the smells were awful! Well, good smell overwhelmed a bit with some really off smells. Not spoiled but just odd smells. I added some baking yeast and let it sit overnight so the bakers yeast could get going. Then I put in the rest of my mash which contained mostly brown sugar and some distillers yeast/DAP/Epsom salts. After 24 hours the smell was really nice with an odd hint of charred wood or something along those lines from the natural yeast. It's pretty unique in my experience.

From what I've read the heavy rums rely on this natural yeast for more complex flavors. These flavors have to be tamed and mellowed by aging whereas the light rums only require light aging and some are not aged at all. We'll see after another batch or two when I have backset.

Next I will try to let the backset start a natural ferment on it's own, not sure if I'll try adding molasses to it or not. Once it gets going with natural yeasts I'll treat it like a yeast starter for the rest of the mash. I'll let you guys know the results.

[goose eye]

when you say backset is you talkin backins or hot slopes.

[Dnderhead]

from research I did for someone --- heavy rum was run once threw pot still----more times it is run the lighter rum you have . they used wiled yeast
to give "boutique" and now it is introduced (also some bacteria) the "dunder" or foam on the top was used to inoculate the next batch it was aged
in well used barrels ( some was used 50 times or more) now most is run off in reflux stills and flavor is re introduced and is aged in stainless tanks

[wineo]

I have wondered if a conditioning faze would help get rid of some of those wild yeast flavors at the end of fermentation.I have seen improvment in my neutral{potstilled}washes doing this.I know beer brewers do this alot,but havent read of distillers using that method.

[Uncle Jesse]

I'll look up the specific details of what many major distilleries seem to do. I read so many sources looking to glean info that I can't really recall all the specifics at the moment. When I say backset I mean the residual wash after distillation. Dunder to me is the residual yeast.

I was searching around trying to find info on making rum without much aging when I came on the info. I am looking for a product or two which I can bring to market while whiskeys are aging. I can't afford to have a rum which needs a year to settle in the cask right now. I will probably put some heavy rum away in some casks but really I need a light rum at the moment.

Found a great cooper I really like and trust. It's more expensive but they can tailor to our needs and they air out their oak for a long time. I'm going to get a couple 60 gallon water bent casks for the corn whiskey I've been making and then I'll experiment with some toasts. He recommends a medium+ toast to start so I'll order 4 or 5 smaller barrels with different toasts to see how the bourbon will like them.

[Husker]

I'll look up the specific details of what many major distilleries seem to do. I read so many sources looking to glean info that I can't really recall all the specifics at the moment. When I say backset I mean the residual wash after distillation. Dunder to me is the residual yeast.

Dunder and backset are the same. Just different words, due probably to different languages of people who "originated" the spirit. The term dunder is usually associated with rum, and backset is usually associated with sour mash whiskey. However, both refer to leavings in the still after a run off the mash/wash.

I usually use lees for the yeast blob. There are probably other proper terms for that also. It can be confusing at times, hearing talk about low wines in one thread, or singleins in another. A lot of these term differences probably come from home (or backwoods) distillers. I am not sure what the "big boys" use. They might have more of a standardized usage of words, I do not know.

H.

[Uncle Jesse]

I too prefer the word "lees" but it seems to be more of a European term in my experience. I've seen dunder used for backset and for the residual yeast...but coming from my American sour mash perspective I've always used the term "backset" or "backset stillage".

Most of the big boys centrifuge their backset...if I ever get to the point where I can afford a centrifuge you guys will know I've made it.

[Husker]

http://www.simplecentrifuge.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That might be a nice addition for a micro distillery like yours. I do not have one, but have used one of this centrifuge bowls. They are WONDERFUL. What we were centrifuging out was waste vegi oil, separating micro particles and micro water droplets. That is some pretty viscus material, vs trying to remove solid waste from backset/dunder. That would be trivial for one of these. If you can fab up the stand and housing, you can put one of these together for 1200 or so.

H.


PS, there are some good videos on the site above, showing the centrifuge working.

[Dnderhead]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It seem that it comes from a word that means "moving mountings" reading more originally it came
from the days when they "dumped "molasses ( at that time was was considered unusable) in a big pile "out behind the mill thous a pile of molasses, stalks etc that would be working with
yeast the pore people would come and scavenge this and make rum (rum was born)

[Husker]

Take if from someone who has dunder as his first name, lol

H.

[Uncle Jesse]

ok according to http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Fermented ... Production:

High Ester Rums:

Another form of pot distillation produces high ester rums. The feed stock for processing this rum is a combination of naturally fermented 'dunder', derived from stillage and 10% ABV.

Still bottoms - stillage, are placed in a dunder pit, a covered hollow in the ground, and allowed to undergo natural fermentation. Wild yeasts and anaerobic bacteria produce a range of volatile fatty acids and esters, predominantly butyric and acetic acids. The anaeroblically produced acids may be fixed with lime, to promote the grown of aerobic acetifying bacteria, essential for acetic acid production.

The charges to the first still comprise a mixture of fermented dunder and alcohol, with the resultant charge being 10% ABV; the second still is charged with low wines and the third with high wines. The recipe can be varied according to the desired end product. The configuration is similar to a double pot apparatus as described above, but without the rectifier. High ester low wines are charged into the low wines still and high wines into the high wines still.

Distillation is allowed to proceed. The contents of the stills are recycled for up to six hours. The mixture of acids, butyric, valeric, caproic, aprylic, acetic etc., are esterified by the added ethanol. Copper acts as a catalyst and the final spirit, when it is eventually drown off, possesses an ester content in excess of 2000g/100 LPA.

The product, with its unique, unmistakable bouquet is much sought after by flavor houses, rum and tobacco blenders.

And from http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Alcohol_Textbook%2C_The

Heavy rum:

Just as there are many different types of rum, there are many different methods of fermentation. In the production of heavily flavored rums, cane juice or diluted molasses mash may be allowed to ferment spontaneously using yeasts present naturally in the feedstock. This is relatively inefficient in terms of alcohol production; and the results may vary. However, it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters. In some processes, e.g. in Jamaica, the spontaneous fermentation may be assisted by the addition of 'dunder' at the start of fermentation. Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.

More later, a bit busy at the moment.

[pintoshine]

if you have a little time for reading may I suggest http://www.rumuniversity.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This is a better read than wiki. It is by people who do rum.
Light rum, cane juice.
Heavy rum Molasses.
Think Bacardi special dark vs. Gossling black seal.

[muckanic]

A couple of thoughts on spontaneous fermentation, from a brewer's perspective. The first is that almost no-one does it successfully, with the exception of the lambic makers in Brussels who seem to possess the appropriate local flora. This is not to say that other brewers do not make use of wild microbes, but that they use some sort of starter culture. The difference in that case is that a natural selection process has occurred before the main brew, namely, the microbes are already alcohol and acid tolerant, and there also tends to be a pressure towards anaerobic fermentation capability. So, there is a big difference between the wash that ferments spontaneously on your back porch, and the next wash fermented with the dregs of the previous.

If we're chasing cogeners, then small starter cultures are generally a good thing in order to force the bugs to respire. Authentic lambics obviously fit this bill to a tee. With less authentic approaches, there is the issue of whether you want to maintain multiple cultures and add them at different stages of the ferment, usually in order to give one a head-start over another. Something like this goes on with sour-mashing in the beer sense. The lactic acid producing bacteria are let rip first so that they are not overwhelmed by the yeast.

There is a major difference between bugs that produce acids from sugars and bugs that produce acids from alcohols. In the latter case, some sort of controlled aerobic post-ferment usually occurs. Examples include vinegar, sherry and lambic making, where casks feature. As far as I am aware, no stillers go to these lengths with their ferments, preferring instead to perform a controlled oxidation of their distillates.

If you want wild yeast, look no further than fruit. Yeast are all over apple and grape skins, for example, and a soft banana or orange smells like a solvent factory. Similarly, lactobacillus bacteria are all over grain and corn (and in saliva). Dunno about sugar cane, but I am sure that there are bugs there that could be exploited for authenticity, but I also suspect these don't survive the molasses manufacturing process too well. Personally, I would be looking towards these sorts of natural flora rather than relying on the wind in most places except Brussels. I have difficulties seeing how anything useful would come out of spontaneous ferments of unsweetened backset, but am willing to stand corrected on that one. You should really only need baker's yeast if the wild bugs can't attenuate the wash completely.

For a raunchy rum, I assume that running the fermentation dregs would help, after keeping behind a small amount for the next batch. Dunno whether this is tradition or not. One slightly left-field idea: German wheat beer yeasts are about as raunchy as a cultured yeast can get, and might be worth a try. The problem is that these require some (malted?) wheat content to produce their cogeners; obviously not traditional for rum.

[Dnderhead]

maybe the way to git some "good" wild yeast is to take a small amount to a vineyard and leave open for while. my under standing that in the old vineyards
of France they would use their old skins in the vineyard as fertilizer and help build up the good yeast in the ground .using the "back porch" makes
a difference witch way the wined is blowing (each time it mite be different

[Uncle Jesse]

Anchor Steam in San Francisco ferments their beers in open vats so I guess they've got something OK going on in their facilities. Then again I'm not a big fan of their beers, a bit on the sour/bitter side for me.

[GingerBreadMan]

I'm currently experimenting with blackstrap vs fancy molasses (the experiment is in the recipes forum).

I've been making rum with fancy molasses and it's very clean and smooth. I'll have to read more on rumuniversity to figure out if this is light or heavy - I'm still confused at the definition, but I'm sure once I have time to read, I'll be a bit more knowledgeable.

Anyways, this will be my first batch of blackstrap molasses and so far there has been some interesting differences between the two molasses. In my research I came across a couple of rum distillers that use high-test molasses which is a new type of molasses to me (never heard of it) - in particular Traveller's One barrel rum switched to high-test. I'll actually be in Belize in Jan (a port stop on a cruise ship) so I hope to pick up a bottle of it.

My latest observation came this morning when I racked the rum to get it ready for the stripping runs. The fancy molasses smell is sweet and has a floral type bouquet to it. The blackstrap molasses is a whole lot less sweet, almost sour smell. While I was dumping the carboys and cleaning them out, the fancy molasses had a singular, molasses beer type smell to it. The blackstrap had a complex number of ordors ranging from the molasses beer smell, to sour milk, to rotten eggs. Not too much of the bad smells, the smell was mostly the beer type smell, but there was a hint every now and then that was, well, a little unpleasant.

Being a statistic of one, I don't think this would be a good general observation. The blackstrap did ferment twice as fast as the fancy molasses so this could be part of the observation and not something in general with the blackstrap.

I do think that fancy or high-test molasses will add a sweet floral bouquet to the rum, while a 2nd or 3rd molasses (like blackstrap) with have a heavier less sweet bouquet. I'll be interested in comparing unaged fancy molasses (which I've had quite a few delicious experiences with) to unaged blackstrap.

Edit: It sure would be nice for everyone to get together someday at GingerBreadMan's Pirate Island, have a rum cook off, and compare notes in person. Trying to describe this in a message board just doesn't seem right.

[muckanic]

Anchor Steam in San Francisco ferments their beers in open vats so I guess they've got something OK going on in their facilities. Then again I'm not a big fan of their beers, a bit on the sour/bitter side for me.

I find their Steam to have unbearable levels of aldehydes and other stuff I normally associate with "green" beer. I always thought it had something to do with the warm, open lager yeast ferment. Can't say that I have tried an aged bottle, but I would expect that to be an improvement. OTOH, their Liberty Ale is to die for (IMHO of course).

However, the mention of vats brings me back to an aspect of these so-called spontaneous ferments, which is that even the authentic lambic brewers effectively employ yeast starters. The majority of their flora come from their wooden fermentation vats rather than from the atmosphere, despite all the advertising. The vats in fact provide the house signature which has been built-up over time.

As for fermentation of backset, I have had stuff sitting around in drums for a couple of weeks over summer and, yes, it can develop a film. I would imagine that if it was barrelled away for a year or so then something interesting might develop. The practical problem here is that I am unaware of anyone treating their surplus backset in this fashion. I am a little sceptical of the notion that some super-aggressive tropical bug could perform this fermentation in a timeframe of days rather than months in an open pit, but like I said I am willing to stand corrected there.

[minime]

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-1 ... thesis.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This is something that Hookline shared with me a short while ago. It's a long read but very in depth thesis and might be of some value.
I gotta say I haven't had time to read it line for line but I've reviewed many parts of it and it really well done.