Thoughts on my reflux column design.

[chunkystyles]

First thing, I'm new here. So I'd like to say hi.

I've been doing a lot of research on everything regarding the fermenting and distillation of alcohol and this site has been my best resource so far.

I've come up with a design for a still that I really haven't seen anywhere else. I've already started making it out of 3" stainless tubing. My boiler will be a regular aluminium keg and I'll be using a propane fish frier. I've attached a crude drawing of my design. A few things that the design doesn't show are: the packing (copper mesh) will start at the bottom of the first condenser and go all the way to the bottom of the column, each condenser will have it's own flow control valve connected at the top of the cap, and the condensers will be 8" double coils made from 1/4" copper tubing. I'm going to wind the inner coil around a 1" pipe and then wind the outer coil around a 2" pipe. I'm thinking that a condenser that fat should be able to knock all the vapor down.

My father is a machinist and is making most of this still for me. He's making everything modular so changes can be made with little effort.

I'm curious what you guys think about this design. I will probably have it done sometime this weekend and I will be able to post pictures then.

[minime]

So your reflux coil in the column will knock down all the vapor 'till you're equalized, then you will reduce water flow in the reflux coil 'till the vapor starts to go past it to the condensing coil? Is that the plan?

[chunkystyles]

So your reflux coil in the column will knock down all the vapor 'till you're equalized, then you will reduce water flow in the reflux coil 'till the vapor starts to go past it to the condensing coil? Is that the plan?

Exactly.

[minime]

Sounds a little complicated but it should work..........you'll have to decide when it's up an running if it handles smoothly or not. I don't recall seeing that design before. Where did the idea come from?

[absinthe]

that just looks like a cooling management still with a coil condenser.. not the best you should just add a plate under the first condenser and make a slant plate reflux or move the other one up and make a Nixon stone type.. unless you plan on a reflux tube between but i still don't get the point

[minime]

that just looks like a cooling management still with a coil condenser.. not the best you should just add a plate under the first condenser and make a slant plate reflux or move the other one up and make a Nixon stone type.. unless you plan on a reflux tube between but i still don't get the point

Most CM columns can't knock down all the vapor and can't be equalized. He might be on to something with this design. I'd been interested to see if it works in practice. I hope he's an experienced distiller so he can judge his distillate straight away.

[chunkystyles]

I got the idea after just researching other designs. When I finally understood how it all worked I came up with this design. This design seems like it would be easier to make and to clean while still being efficient and controllable.

[chunkystyles]

Actually, I have seen a design that is similar to mine. I've attached the pdf that I found it in. If you look at the pdf, you'll see it works the same way but the first "condenser" on it is much less efficient. Overall I think the pdf's design is rather lacking.

Edit: I can't upload the file, so here is a link http://homedistiller.org/Stillmaker.pdf

[minime]

Actually, I have seen a design that is similar to mine. I've attached the pdf that I found it in. If you look at the pdf, you'll see it works the same way but the first "condenser" on it is much less efficient. Overall I think the pdf's design is rather lacking.

Edit: I can't upload the file, so here is a link http://homedistiller.org/Stillmaker.pdf

You're right about that design rather lacking. No way to equalize so heads removal is very sloppy indeed. I think you'll have some challenges to overcome. Thermometer placement should be in your cross tube. You don't want to have a valve on this design as you might pressurize the still and that might be hazardous to your health. Who knows, you might be on to something but most on this board don't think Cooling Management is a very good option.

Good luck and stay safe............keep us posted.

[Hawke]

Oh, Ok. Supposed to be similar to an internal reflux design. Save yourself some time, money and agrivation and build a slant plate in-line or a VM.

[absinthe]

yeah you could make a valved Nixon still with all the parts there (+ about 40Cm of 3/8 copper and a needle valve) and you only need to make ONE coil condenser (PAIN IN THE ARSE TO MAKE)

[Rudi]

Im with Absinthe lotsa pain no gain, build a bok slant plate cheaper easier to build easier to run did I mention eaiser to build?

[chunkystyles]

It's too late at this point. It's almost done. My father is a machinist and has access to any part he could ever need to build something like this. Also, it's modular, so if I want to put in a slant plate he can make another section to do just that and I can put that on if I want. This will be a very unique still, to be sure.

[minime]

It's too late at this point. It's almost done. My father is a machinist and has access to any part he could ever need to build something like this. Also, it's modular, so if I want to put in a slant plate he can make another section to do just that and I can put that on if I want. This will be a very unique still, to be sure.

Actually sounds like it might be fun. I think you're breaking new ground with this one chunky. Keep us posted with your results.......good or bad as that'll keep others from making the same mistakes or benefiting from your experiment.

Good luck

[HookLine]

I think you're breaking new ground with this one chunky.

Nothing new here. The basic design principle behind this one has been around for a while.

[chunkystyles]

Well, I thought I would post some pictures. I'll be setting this up and running it with water some time this weekend, maybe tonight. Keep in mind this has 2 1' extenstions on it. These are just extras. I will probably use one extension and remove the 28" section that contains the packing when doing stripping runs. I'll keep the packing section in when using it for plain pot distilling so I can get sufficient copper in the vapor path.

The very bottom part is a 2" NPT connecter that goes to a 2" to 3" ferrule. On the 2" NPT connecter is 2 SS bars welded on to make it easy to screw in, like a wing nut. The flow control valves are welded on to those bars. It's kinda hard to see in these pictures, but there is a place in the middle of the two condensers at the top for a thermometer to be screwed in. I don't yet have a second thermometer for that, though.

Edit: The ball in the pictures is a cue ball. Some of the pictures were taken on a red felt pool table.

[chunkystyles]

More pictures.

[minime]

there is a place in the middle of the two condensers at the top for a thermometer to be screwed in. I don't yet have a second thermometer for that, though.

Wow, your work looks awesome. You will definitely need a thermometer in the cross tube for your spirit run. It's critical to watch the temperature of vapor going to the condenser to make quality spirits.

Good luck on your cleaning run.

[chunkystyles]

Wow, your work looks awesome. You will definitely need a thermometer in the cross tube for your spirit run. It's critical to watch the temperature of vapor going to the condenser to make quality spirits.

Good luck on your cleaning run.

Don't credit me for it. I didn't do any of the work, nor do I have the skills to do it. I have to give all the credit to my father who is a god at metalworking.

[punkin]

It is a very beautiful still

I hope you find the hose diameter large enough to run your cooling water, it may need to be bigger though...
You might think about a pressure release somewhere besides the output, other than that just run it.

Just a lovely piece of work, have you thought of a name for it yet?

[tracker0945]

It is a very beautiful still

I hope you find the hose diameter large enough to run your cooling water, it may need to be bigger though...
You might think about a pressure release somewhere besides the output, other than that just run it.

Just a lovely piece of work, have you thought of a name for it yet?

I certainly agree with the beautiful still comment.
As regard the water hose diameter...
All of my hoses for condenser purposes are 1/4" I.D. hose and I have found no problem with getting sufficient flow. It will all depend on head height and the flow volume able to be achieved but with the look of that still, I would venture to suggest that there would be very little chance of any obstruction in the condenser being permitted to pass the quality control checks

JMHO
Cheers.


DontLikeToDisagreeWithPunkinThoughTracker

[tracker0945]

On reflection and a second hard look, those hoses may be smaller than 1/4"I.D.

One thing I can say though is that it's gunna cost you a lot of bottles of hooch for your dad before you have paid off that incredible piece of art.

Cheers again.

[punkin]

DontLikeToDisagreeWithPunkinThoughTracker

Youre right mate, i'm talking from observation, not experience

All my lines so far are half inch, i've never tried to cool with anything but small pump pressure and half inch lines.

When i said pressure release, i meant for the still, not the condensor

But just tell an idiot like me something, for those with column knowledge, if the first condensor is doing it's job, how does anything (vapour) reach the second condensor?

[tracker0945]

But just tell an idiot like me something, for those with column knowledge, if the first condensor is doing it's job, how does anything (vapour) reach the second condensor?

If you are asking a question Punkin and it somehow relates to a VM still, then I believe that the take-off point for the second condenser should be below the level of the column condenser, so some of the upward moving vapour is directed to the second condenser via the open valve, rather than to the one in the column.
But if you were not asking a question, then what do I know but one day I think I will build one just to find out.

With this one pictured, this is not the case and with my limited knowledge, I would think that if the top T section containing the condensers could be turned up the other way (if the fittings are reversable) it may work a bit better.

Where are the VM experts when you need them?

Edit: just realised this is a CM not VM still

Cheers.

[Rudi]

But just tell an idiot like me something, for those with column knowledge, if the first condensor is doing it's job, how does anything (vapour) reach the second condensor?

I think that you controll the amount of cooling going to the reflux condensor to controll the reflux ratio (pain in arse)

[minime]

A couple of years ago I was fooling with a CM design and found it lacking in a couple of areas. It wasn't as well made as Chunky's but here's what I learned from the experience.

1. I had a poor setup for removing heads (couldn't equalize). I think Chunky's still will be OK for heads removal.
2. I was able to get very good hearts with a one meter column.
3. Tails removal was a pain in the ass. The reflux ratio needed to be increased on gradient. (constant attention) I eventually decided to change to an offset which works in a more linear fashion. (better but not perfect)

I did buy an AMOT temperature control valve which I intended on installing in that still but I never got around to it. I think Chunky's still might be a good candidate for automating with a temp control valve. With his dad's metal skills they''ll be turning out some great product very soon I'm sure.

[punkin]

Ok so, you run the first condenser hard to stabilise, then turn it down so it's only refluxing some of the vapour, and adjust that through the run.

Does sound like it'l take some driving.

[minime]

Ok so, you run the first condenser hard to stabilise, then turn it down so it's only refluxing some of the vapour, and adjust that through the run.

Does sound like it'll take some driving.

It should be pretty stable right through most of the hearts collection but when the temps really start to rise with tails it get really funky to operate. He has a LOT more cooling power than I did so maybe it'll be much smoother. I'm eager to see how it operates for him.

[Rudi]

Does sound like it'l take some driving.

Yep

[chunkystyles]

We did a water run Saturday and we learned a lot about it. It was producing water with a very noticeable off flavor (edit: and smell) and an oil on the top of the water. We're trying to track it down. We are going to clean everything out again and sterilize it with phosphoric acid. I'm also gonna change out all the seals from rubber to teflon.

We found that our flow control valves sucked which made adjustments extremely hard. I'll be getting the new valves and seals sometime this week so I'll be doing another water run.

I was very pleased with how well it ran. There were no leaks at all (we tested with compressed air and soapy water). One condenser was plenty cooling to knock all the vapor down even with the fish frier on full. I found that if I turned down the first condenser too much, the water would boil inside the coil. That wouldn't be too big of an issue if I weren't using plastic tubing for the outflow of the condenser, so I have to be careful not to melt it.