first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Sugar, and all about sugar washes. Where the primary ingredient is sugar, and other things are just used as nutrients.

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distill58
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first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by distill58 »

I'm following the McCone protocol that's in Tony's site. I've kept the Ph between 3.4-4.0 aerated heavily for 1st 2 days, and added sugar after it gets to about 4 brix until it's back at 10 brix (started at about 20-21 brix) I used Red Star's Premier Cuvee, which I understand is a copy of Ec 1118, sac. bayanus Formerly known as Prise de Mousse. I added 10 gm. Fermaid, and I started a starter with the 10 gm. Premier Cuvee, added 1-1/3 gm. DAP (with 2 more additions of 1-1/3 gm. DAP over the 1st 4 days), I have 3-5 gallon fermentation buckets that I started a different times. The first batch is at SG of 1014 now. I've added a total 5.8 kg. to a total of 4.5 gallons, and Tony's site calculator (for yield) says it's got a potential alcohol of 19%. It's been 3 weeks since I started it, with a total of 3 additions of sugar. It hasn't changed for the last 5 days basically, although I can see a little activity (some bubbles).
Batch #2 has had the same treatment (except I used about 1/2 gallon of fermenting batch #1 instead of starting from scratch). I've made 2 additions of sugar for a total of 5.3 kg and I'm seeing a potential of between 17.3 and 17.4% if it completes to dryness). It hasn't changed in 3 days, although I can see it's bubbling slightly more than batch #1.
Batch #3 has had the least amount of sugar added, total of one addition of sugar for 4.6 kg with potential alcohol of between 13-14% if it completes to dryness. It's actually bubbling steadily and the sg has gone down daily, it's now at 1012 balling 3.
I'm just wondering if my first two batches are 'stuck' and if I should add more sugar to my 3rd batch seeing how the first two batches aren't doing anything now (anything much that is)
I kept a pretty good eye on the ph and tempature, although it did go to ph 2.6 (batch #2) for a short period, but I added potassium carbonate to get it back up to the 3.4-4.0 range.
Is this Premier Cuvee basically the same as Lavlin ec-1118? Is there anything that anybody is seeing that I'm doing wrong? I expected to get around 18% alcohol, and to get it in a shorter amount of time than it's taken.
Hawke
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Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by Hawke »

If this is for drinking, you are pushing the first two batches way too hard. Most of us shoot for no more than a 12% finish. Makes for a cleaner final product without having to resort to carbon filtering and all the other BS steps involved.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
distill58
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Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by distill58 »

Really, only 12%? I guess that I'll definitely have to get a stripper going then.
What about neutral spirits-is that a higher ABV?
Is there some type of diabetic test you can easily (and cheaply) use to see if the wash is 'to dryness' or is just stuck? Shouldn't my TG be under 1.000?
Thanks for the info--
Hawke
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Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by Hawke »

Most here shoot for a start of 1.09 and finish around .990 - .995
Neutral spirits is anything without taste. Can be made from any type of mash or wash, but usually from sugar.
Yeast starts to get stressed over 12% and starts dying off at 14%. Turbo yeasts have been cultivated to take the strongest of the strain to achieve the high % washes. All the DAP, clearing agents and carbon filtering are just extra expense and steps that usually ends up with a product that tastes and smells like paint thinner.
It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.
Valved Reflux, 3"x54" Bok 'mini', 2 liebig based pots and the 'Blockhead' 60K btu propane heat
distill58
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 am
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by distill58 »

So what do you use for a decent tasting inexpensive wash? I heard bakers used worked well (and I used Bokabob's 'supermarket moonshine' that's on his Bokabob page for his mini-still, but I was using the 'Amazing Still' then, and I was amazed that after a long time, and keeping the temperature at between 45 and 50 C, that I had something that was only 20%)
I heard baker's yeast (or I read that) would go to 14%?
Dnderhead
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Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by Dnderhead »

In my opinion you will never git a all sugar wash to taste "good" most is sharp and bite. adding grain helps. if you want high percent alcohol
either use a reflux still or do multiple runs.
trthskr4
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Re: first ferment, a sugar wash, Red Star Premier Cuvee?

Post by trthskr4 »

I would think potatoes would make a better, less harsh vodka than pure sugar. Some folks push their fruit washes up to 14% but beyond that is countering the point of the handcrafted, better than top shelf commercial stuff.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
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