Oak Box Revisited

[Butch50]

Dear Moderators:

In my humble opinion you were too quick, and too harsh in locking the thread titled Oak Box.

I too recall at least one discussion on that topic; as it is one that interests me. I just now performed a search using the key words "Oak Box" "Box Barrel" and "Wooden Box" and did not turn up any of those discussions. Search feature are not panaceas, nor do all of us of average intelligence have a great affinity for computers and use them as well as others of more talent, nor do we all have the automatic ability to think up just the right search words.

Would it not have perhaps been better to display the links to those previous discussions, and simply refer him to those previous threads on the subject instead of slamming him? That way you could have perpetuated the discussion instead of killing it, and perhaps we could come up with a good alternative to those expensive barrels that most of us can not build ourselves.

The use of plastics is a taboo on this forum. I don't understand taboos and people that enforce them with religious fervor. Sure you don't want people doing foolish things, but a simple referral to the sticky would probably serve to educate more effectively than cutting off the conversation. The topic really wasn't about using plastic so much as building a box and sealing it somehow, that whole diatribe about plastic and it starting a religious flame war seemed way out of proportion to the sealant question.

It gets to the point where I don't even want to ask questions on here anymore because someone is going to tell me that it was discussed already and why didn't I read read read and use the search feature and how dare I ask a question that was asked already.

Using a sealant might be a good idea, certainly it is one I would like to hear more about. There are non-plastic sealants that might be used. Oakum is a possibility, maybe someone out there has a recipe for a food grade caulk? How about a high grade form of portland grout? Maybe there are ceramic materials? Who knows if you don't give people a chance to talk?

[Tater]

I tried a search- http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... square+box

[junkyard dawg]

The old timers that figured out how to build a container have already done all that engineering. They, thru trial and error settled on the barrel. Its the best way to contain a liquid without leaking. There are so many years of proof of this design. Forget about the box... forget about sealants... now you are worrying about fixing an inferior design If the oak box was a good idea, don't you think you might have seen it before? It's just not a good idea.

Gibbs Bros barrels... thats a great idea.

[Hawke]

Mile-Hi sells some small barrels for a decent price. Almost impossible to make a square box seal tight enough. Any sealant that has to cure is going to leach chemicals into the alcohol. As it is impossible to get all the grain going the same direction, the wood would tend to split once it gets saturated.

[joes2]

There actually is a company that makes square/rectangular oak barrels.

http://www.cyboxsa.ch/indexEnglish.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not that much cheaper than barrels though, but easier to store and handle.

[Hack]

Barrels were invented before the advent of many newer technologys that might have a chance of also being successful. Also the needs of the hobby distiller are different from those of the full scale distiller.

The first solution to the box idea that comes to mind is building a box using full width oak boards and fastening it together with many screws. Then fill it with water and let it swell the seams tight just like a barrel. This should be within the abilities of the average home woodworker. The key would be fitting the seams tightly, as in no gaps. The box could be built so that none of the metal of the screws comes in contact with the spirits. If somebody was concerned about this stainless screws could be used.

No need for questionable sealants. I may give this a try.

[punkin]

It's all been hashed to death in the thread that tater linked.

It was boring then and it's even more boring now. Put some of the hundreds your not giving the tax man aside and buy a couplea barrells from the proffesionals. Rest easy in that you are keeping a dying trade alive by supporting a commecial cooperage.

[Dnderhead]

I whould say it is possible but if you have to buy the wood and materials it will cost about 150$ us and you can buy a barrel for 200$
unless you have #1 select 5/4-2" white oak of your own it whould not be worth it. #1 oak ant cheep

[Hack]

It's all been hashed to death in the thread that tater linked.

It was boring then and it's even more boring now.

I just read that thread. I see what you mean. It looked like only one person there had actually tried it, and that was a long time ago. I think a persons skill at woodworking would have a great deal to do with how successful their efforts would be. I'm pretty sure I could do it but given the cost as Dnderhead pointed out, and the fact I'm happy enough to age in a glass jar with toasted bits I'll probably pass on this idea.

[Butch50]

I have built a few small wooden boats. It is amazing how much of a gap will disappear when a boat is soaked in water. My very first boat sank right off. By the time I got it bailed out it was only leaking a bit. By the next day it was dry inside, and stayed that way as long as it was kept in the water. Pre-soaking would be the first thing I would do, even with a barrel. Just to be sure that I didn't have a bunch of good stuff running all over the floor.

I haven't priced white oak, and it probably is prohibitively expensive, but if you had a cheap source, then I think a box could be built - think along the lines of boat building principles. Once the box was soaked and had swollen up, then would be the time to put bands on it. Put them on too soon and you just might cause the wood to crush against itself wrecking the box.

I would use either copper or stainless nails, the whisky will soak quite a ways into the wood and could reach the nails. Small nails, or perhaps screws, closely spaced. Screws would certainly hold better and not back themselves out over time the way that nails will sometimes do.

A lot of the time, it isn't just the price. If I could build my own, I would rather do that than buy. Even if the price was even. I like to make my own stuff when I can. Barrel making is an art and not something you can just jump up and do, but box building - anyone with basic tools and basic skills can make a box, and with the right attitude should be able to make a close tolerance box that would hold water. I don't know though if alcolhol has the same wood swelling properties as water. It might not make the wood swell as much, just don't know.

I am curious about using concrete. Concrete made from just sand and portland cement. Something might leach out of the portland into the alcolhol but I am not sure what. If it was old fashioned portland it would be lime and clay IIRC. Today's portland has the possibility of having weird chemicals in it. I used to do a lot of concrete work, so the thought of making a wood lined concrete cask appeals to me, certainly it is within my range of skills - and concrete, when done right, is impervious to water, making a great water container. Other than the portland the only components are sand and gravel and stone and water. Well, you can add or have added pozzolans and air entraining admixtures and a whole slew of other chemicals - but you don't have to if you mix your own. I will be doing some reading and research to see if a home made portland isn't possible - it certainly is how it started.