Adding ferment to final spirit rum for added flavor

[Asohosy]

I do a lot of rum that I usually double distill, stripping run then spirit run. Has anyone diluted the stripped run with a bit (just a little bit) of the leftover ferment for added flavor in the final run?

Or is it better to skip the stripping run, make careful cut on the first distill and call it a day?

[blanikdog]

I've sorta put my thoughts about this in spirit run theory and to extend what I put there, I rather like the taste of molasses so I add some molasses to the aged spirit. I don;t know exactly how much as I do it by taste and take it carefully as the molasses can become dominant.

It's all about what you like.

blanik

[new_moonshiner]

Each pass will remove some of the flav. I also have added back a tad of Molas. for flav . then let the dust clear .. settle out and rack it off leaving sediment in bottom ..careful though it gives it color as well a little goes a long ways too much and its almost black..

[punkin]

I do a lot of rum that I usually double distill, stripping run then spirit run. Has anyone diluted the stripped run with a bit (just a little bit) of the leftover ferment for added flavor in the final run?

Or is it better to skip the stripping run, make careful cut on the first distill and call it a day?

The other blokes have missed the question, but i can tell ya i do that with almost every run i do to some degree.

I redistilled my barrell contents (for another reason ) today. I took 22.5l of 65% ujsm cut spirit and added it to 22.5l of ujsm corn and malt barley wash.
Gave me a charge of 45l at 38%.

This had an unbelievable amount of flavour from start to finnish, the cuts were more drawn out than usual, but i still managed to put 16l of hearts away tasting from the worm.
Normally on a ujsm spirit run i can make all but a couplea jars off the worm on either side of my cut, i'm that used to the flavour of that stuff, but this had flavour from the heads at 83% down to the tails at 35% i've seperated into 500ml lots.
It would not be uncommon for me to start collecting tails at 68% (same with this run) and then run em to feints from 48-55% down.
I have very high hopes for this method, and may soon convert to a 50/50 split of wash and low wines for most of my potstilling.

I believe the minor portions are going to come into play a lot more, increasing the yeild, and puting less back into the feints.

I'll know more tommorrow.



The short of it is, i always add wash to a spirit run in varying degrees.


Probably just gone the very long way around rediscovering the advantages of a thumper



HotOffThePressPunkin

[Asohosy]

Wasn't thinking as high as 50/50. More like 20/80 or less, 20% wash and 80% stripped spirit.

The end result that I am looking for is more flavor than I can get from a 75% - 80% spirit run AND cleaner spirit than single run, careful cuts, 50% spirit.

[Barney Fife]

Hmmm, I just ran pretty much the same ting as Punkin(though on a smaller scale ). I stripped 4 generations of UJSM(only deviation from the recipe is that I cooked the corn to geletinize it and used about 1/2lb of malted barley to help), tossing only the foreshots, saving everything else.

Now, on the 5th generation of the UJSM, I charged the still, and added all the other generations' to it. I ran this one carefully, making good cuts, and like Punkin, it's got as ton of flavor right off the still, and much potential. It wasn't any harder, didn't cost anything. The idea was the same; run a high ABV spirit run with some wash. I figured there was plenty of water in the previous strip runs' stuff.

This is only my second try at UJSM; I found the first ones to be rather weak in flavor, thus, the new ideas.
Try it!

[punkin]

Yes, 80/20 will make a noticeable difference, even 10% will give some extra flavour.


Interesting ain't it Barney? Dunno if i'm ready to go adding a thumper, but the spirit/strip method requires further investigation.

[Asohosy]

In what way is this similar to a thumper?

[punkin]

In what way is this similar to a thumper?

I figure that what i'm doing is really 1.5 distillations. A strip run on a few batches to give me a quantitiy of low wines and then fortifying my next wash with the low ines to give me a charge of near 40% abv with a very full flavour profile. When it's run, it's coming out in the eighties to start, but still with a full flavour.

If i was to add a thumper to my still, i think the second distillation would act in much the same way, giving me a stronger abv on the output, while still dragging mucho flavours through from the wash. just save me lighting the burner an extra half a time. But still effectively giving me a 1.5 x distillation.

Do you think there is similarities?

[RumBull]

I always add back some dunder to the spirit run, about 20%. I like a heavy rum. I had even gotten in the habit lately of pushing my stripping run hard enough that I get some puking. I end up with a very flavorful stripping run that looks like coffee. The spirit run will end up with plenty of flavor.

[Asohosy]

Well I guess you're right, if you fill up the thumper with the same wash you get the same result in one go.

[Thirsty Bob]

Just a newbie theory...

By adding wash to the higher ABV of a stripping run, perhaps the extra alcohol can "carry" some more of the aromatics, whereas the wash alcohol would be saturated with much less volatiles.
The extra aromatics might be more easily carried into the early or late hearts, depending on volatility.
That's why I'm going to start with a reflux, pots scare me.

Does this make any sense?

[junkyard dawg]

A strip run on a few batches to give me a quantitiy of low wines and then fortifying my next wash with the low ines to give me a charge of near 40% abv with a very full flavour profile. When it's run, it's coming out in the eighties to start, but still with a full flavour.

I have had great success with diluting the low wines from several runs with the original wash, or fruit, or fruit juice, or even water and grain. I also dilute to about 40% abv. This way I have gotten some products run through 3 or 4 distillations... very clean and great flavor.

[muckanic]

By adding wash to the higher ABV of a stripping run, perhaps the extra alcohol can "carry" some more of the aromatics ...
Does this make any sense?

I believe that, theoretically, gasses don't carry each other - that is more a liquid solvation thing.

I'm having trouble keeping up here, mainly due to not knowing who's recycling tails, what the tails cut is, who's using backset and how much, etc.

[Thirsty Bob]

By adding wash to the higher ABV of a stripping run, perhaps the extra alcohol can "carry" some more of the aromatics ...
Does this make any sense?

I believe that, theoretically, gasses don't carry each other - that is more a liquid solvation thing.

I'm having trouble keeping up here, mainly due to not knowing who's recycling tails, what the tails cut is, who's using backset and how much, etc.

I hear you loud and clear muck. I have been taken off course before I realized people were talking about pots rather than reflux or VM vs LM yada yada. It's all part of the process and I find it frustrating and fascinating.

My point was:

A basic wash has between 10 and 20% abv so may only be able to dissolve x amount of compounds. When a higher abv solution has wash added, it can dissolve more compounds in the wash. Or course, I could be talking complete shite.

As I understand it , there are no gases in the process, apart from CO2. There are liquids and vapours, and vapours are not pure, which is why many use a reflux column.

The bottom line is; I am a techie but it only helps me if I want to make ethanol. The rest is experience, technique, and personal taste, as much as I would like otherwise.

So, I read, learn and spout off occasionally like I know what I'm talking about.

Enjoy the ride and take pleasure in being wrong. The discovery is the kick.

Bob

[tracker0945]

I have been doing mine lately a bit like Punkin said.
I fast strip about 2/3 of the wash in one run, then add these low wines collected in with the remaining 1/3 of the wash and run it fairly slow.
All works out good for me.

Cheers.

This is with a pot still.

[Barney Fife]

I just ran a rum yesterday, the same way I ran the UJSM earlier. I'm convinced of the merits to this method! Eben at 75-80% ABV, there was more -good- flavor than I've ever had, and I like a strong flavored rum.

My rundown: I ran 4 stripping runs(5 gallon washes), collecting everything but the first 100-200ml of each wash. Saved everything, set it all aside. On my 5th generation(I forget which thread it was, but I explained my continuous rum wash method a week or so ago), I charged the still with the wash, and added all the other washes collection. This maxes my still's capacity, so 5 generations is all I can do. Ran this one carefully(careful cuts), but pushing it hard all the way, at 3,000 watts input. I was surprised at how many liters of heads I collected, but more importantly, how distinctly it went from heads to hearts! Nice.... The hearts and tails again had a good, distinct cutting point.

Straight off the still, even at 75%, a little taste revealed some of the best rum ever. I'm sold on this method; the size of our boiler will determine how many generations and/or washes we can collect before running them -with- a wash. I may need a larger boiler tan my 12 gallon one, now. Not for more product, but for better product.

[punkin]

I'm having trouble keeping up here, mainly due to not knowing who's recycling tails, what the tails cut is, who's using backset and how much, etc.

For my part, while talking about ujsm in this thread, i recycle all my feints bar foreshots, and i use less than 1/4 backset in my washes.

I add a small amount of malt barley too without mashing if that's any bearing.

[violentblue]

I'm of two thoughts on this issue
its much easier to make cuts when you have more distillate so I'd think that mixing wash back into stripped spirit for a final spirit run would add back some lost flavor, but doing a singlr slow careful run might yeald a little less product, but much more flavor.

I like rum, so variety being the spice of life, sometimes I'll do a single run batch, sometimes I'll do a strip/spirit mrun, but always with wash added back for the spirit run. for me 50/50 wouldn't be a bad idea more wash would mean more flavor. but its all about what you like

[flymoon]

Hey all,

After lurking around here for the last nine months, I finally found a thread that I felt I could comment on with some certainty.

I've actually gone through a little bit of (unintentional) experimentation concerning whether wash in the thumper makes any difference or not. I've been making rum for about four or five runs now. The second run I ended up priming the thumper with the wash for what ever reason (I honestly don't remember why, but it's in my notes that way). As luck would have it, this was by far the best rum I've produced. It was great right out of the still, with no breathing time required. (had all the friends ranting, raving, and wanting some)

The last couple runs I've been trying to reproduce that same wonderful flavor, concentrating all my efforts on how the wash was made, not how it was distilled. Unfortunately that got me no where. On those runs I had taken tails from the previous runs, and put them in the thumper (the heads get used elsewhere, but that's another story). I'm thinking now that was a big mistake. The last two runs haven't had anywhere close to the same flavor, and needed significant breathing time so that all you didn't taste was sour.

BTW, I'm running a 16ga pot still, with a thumper, and slobber before an ice cooled condensing coil. Personally speaking I'm always wondering why people around here seem to cringe away from thumper's as "too much work." It's been an incredable simple way to increase the final ABV produced, with little to no hassle. {shrug}
(when I get around to it, I'll post pictures and a full description of my setup in an appropriate thread)

[Hack]

Welcome aboard flymoon.

I'd avoid charging your thumper with tails. I'd think it would make it so you were pulling more tails into your hearts. Charging your thumper with wash is a common way of increasing the abv and flavor of your final product.(compared to charging it with water)

[junkyard dawg]

concentrating all my efforts on how the wash was made,

that was not wasted effort

Good likker comes from good ferments... its the foundation... learning how to do it right will always pay off later.

Welcome, I'm looking forward to those pics... sounds like a nice rig.

[Asohosy]

I ferment from raw sugar instead of molasses which give less flavor, trying to emulate agtricole rum. Using this method I get more flavor than usual and still more refined rum than if using molasses. I get the best of both worlds.

[HookLine]

I am a fan of a raw sugar base, plus some molasses/treacle, with some wash added to the second run. Gives a nice light-medium rum. Don't like the real strong flavour stuff.