need help with condenser.

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:29 am

Yesterday I tried for the third time to bend my condenser with out much luck.

I was bending the 1/4" ID soft copper around a 1" pipe and the result was 23 turns and about 13" long(used about 13' of the copper). I filled the tube with sand and used a spring bender but I just can't seem to get clean bends. I'll rap 7 or 8 coils and then run into a kink. I've tried heat and I think it makes the pipe more likely to kink.

In most of the posts I've read people are using 16-20' of copper and getting a coil ~12" long to go into a 2" shell. Should I be using 1/4" OD pipe? It doesn't seem possible to wind 20' of 1/4" ID pipe and get a coil the size most people are using.

Thanks,
BigA

LeftLaneCruiser · Post by **LeftLaneCruiser** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:26 am

Although i haven't been unlucky in the same amount as you have, i recognise some of your problems.

The heat indeed makes it more easy for the copper to kink. You can heat your copper to redhot en let it cool to room temperature for 'repairing' mistakes, but the copper gets harder and more brittle after that. And therefore it is more likely to tear or break.

Smaller diameters are bent more easly. 1/4" (6mm.) internal diameter seems quite big to me. I guess 1/4 OD should be better.
In my succesfull attempt i used 4.75 mm (3/16 ")

KJH

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:43 pm

Sounds like the sand may have become compacted or settled out creating an air space if you got several wraps and then get kinks. I worked really hard to compact and settle the salt that I used...tapping constantly as I filled the tubing...and only filling a little at a time. I used 1/4" tubing and wrapped a double helix that fits into a 2" pipe. It worked like a charm for me.

linw · Post by **linw** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:18 pm

Like LLC I used 3/16" (nominal 5mm) soft copper tubing and it went like a dream. I wound about 14' on a 1.5" former giving 27 tns. I was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it was and what a nice symetrical coil it produced. This diameter is all I need for my VM column as very little water is required (approx 350 ml per min).

Try 3/16" is my advice.

MyDBear · Post by **MyDBear** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:58 pm

I used 1/4" ID ..3/8" OD and fill it full of very dry sand pack it in you dont want any air pockets crimp the ends and wind it on what ever you want to make the size of healix you want

Post by **Fourway** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:24 pm

bigA wrote:Yesterday I tried for the third time to bend my condenser with out much luck.

I don't fill the tubes and I use a tube bender.
Filling with sand never worked for me at all.

The big break in understanding for me was that the more you bend the tube the harder it gets.
If you mess up the first time it will just get harder to do unless you re soften the copper.

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:33 pm

I haven't been about to log onto this site since my last post, anyone else have this problem?

Anyways, I read all your posts and I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Seems like there are a number of nixon/stone-moonshine-still designs running, but no detailed instructions on building/bending the condenser. I guess it's my misunderstanding the dementions of the pipe or of the methods useded.

So, I guess what I'm asking is who here has a working still with a nixon/stone or moonshine-still off-set condenser with a 2" copper pipe shell? If you do, I like to know what pipe you used(outside diameter in inches) and what method you used(form pipe diameter, heat no heat, tools).

Please help!!! I really want to get onto the more creative areas of distilling.

Thanks for all your help,

BigA

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:42 pm

I've read a few posts using this pipe, and once again I don't understand if it's O.D or I.D. I'll assume for the moment, that it is I.D., that would make the bending a lot better, but mistakes more costly(a kink in a smaller pipe would make it useless). 3/16" isn't found at the local lowes here, but i could get it if you guys think it would be better for my purpose.

Thanks a lot,
NostillyetA

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:57 pm

I have a 2" shell with a double coil I made from 1/4" tubing.

Links to the coil I made.
http://tinyurl.com/4rjcc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://tinyurl.com/65bmu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://tinyurl.com/66nrc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I coiled mine around a 7/8" diameter wooden broom handle. Took 20' of 1/4" tubing and formed it in a large "U" shape. It almost extended to the ceiling at each end. I slowly filled the coil with salt and a very tiny funnel...tapping ALOT to make sure that the complete tube was filled.

Then I taped off each end to prevent the salt from spilling. Then took one end of the tubing and taped it to the broom stick about 2 feet from the end of the tubing. The coils wrapped around the broom stick started at the tape, the extension was for my future water connections.

I used a propane torch to heat about one foot of the copper tubing filled with salt, not red hot but pretty hot. Using leather gloves I would wrap that one foot around the broom handle, then repeat the process of heating another foot of the tubing and wrapping that around the broom handle.

When I got the length of coils I wanted I began wrapping them back onto themselves, still heating one foot of the tubing as I went. I never allowed the heated segment of tubing to cool before I began wrapping around the broomstick handle.

Some folks have trouble getting the salt back out after they have made the coil but I bought a $3 compression fitting that attaches 1/4
" tubing to a standard garden hose, placed this on the end of the newly formed coil, attached the garden hose and turned on the water...20 minutes later it was flowing freely. Just don't do this anywhere you ever want to grow grass again. Here's a pic of the coil when I was cleaning it out. http://tinyurl.com/4wjsn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:14 pm

First Grayson, that is a great looking coil!! You didn't say, but from the last pick I could see that the coil was make from 1/4" O.D. pipe, right? I mean 1/4" ID would be 2 3/8" wrapped double around a 7/8" pipe...(3/8+3/8+3/8+3/8+7/8=2 3/8")

Secondly, Salt is a much better method than sand...You could put the whole thing under white vingar and the salt would just melt away.

Thanks,
SoontobuildmystillA

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:32 pm

Yes, it is a 1/4" OD tube. Each coil of the outer wrap lies in the valley of the underlying wraps. I never tried the vinegar. I knew I was going to use the garden hose for my cooling water source so the fitting worked perfect for me.

Some folks have suggested having room between the coils would be more efficient but I only have to crack the valve on the hose bibb and it knocks down the vapor from the 1800 W element.

MrPlace · Post by **MrPlace** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:39 pm

Grayson, do you have any picture of your coil attached to your still? If ya do, could you share them?

Thanks,

Oso

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:29 am

I've got one, but it's a pic of the entire still so it's rather hard to see anything. I'll take one as soon as I can find my digital camera.

liquias · Post by **liquias** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:41 pm

bigA
i think your problem is that you try to turn your coil on a too small a diamiter (1" if i understood correctly sounds just under enough. i used the same pipe and i bent it over 4 cm, worked like a dream).
do what grayson suggests, use some round shaped object as support , then you can bend your tube safely , try to get someone to help you with this . 4 hand is much easyier than two .

[/img]

fish · Post by **fish** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:42 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 78044&rd=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This is too easy

Only 10 bucks I would design the whole still around this condenser.

fish · Post by **fish** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:43 pm

Baring noone holds a grude against the seller

Post by **Fourway** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:43 pm

fish wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 78044&rd=1

This is too easy Only 10 bucks I would design the whole still around this condenser.

And you don't even need to.
the guy who bent that condenser up has already designed what is in my opinion the best column head going.

I'd be very suprised if that doesn't get bid up some. Alex's hand skills are really enviable. I personally can't come close to his quality of work.

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:17 pm

Thanks Fish,

I did bid on that condenser but didn't want to go over $20 on it with $10 shipping. It was a very nice coil but the two bends on the ends looked a little flat to me. Anyways, I guess I'll have to bend my own.

~BigA

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:31 pm

bigA wrote:Thanks Fish,

I did bid on that condenser but didn't want to over $20 on it with $10 shipping. It was a very nice coil but the two bends on the ends looked a little flat to me. Anyways, I guess I'll have to bend my own.

~BigA

I wouldn't worry so much about the two bends on the ends looking a little flat. As long as the water can get by then you will have a cooling coil. Flatness will happen to some degree when you are bending a copper pipe in such a tight radius. Just because it is a little flat doesn't mean that you have reduced the area or restricted the flow of the pipe. Kinks is what you have to worry about because now you have reduced the area and restricted the flow.

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:19 pm

Just got an email back from Alex and he said he'd bend me a coil and send it to me for $30. I think I spent a couple of hours the last time I tried to bend a coil...one more mistake and I'll be over the $30 in materials alone(I think I could get it done now that I know to use 1/4" OD rather than ID).

Knuckelhead, I see your point...and it is a very nice coil.

Regards,
BigA

bigA · Post by **bigA** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:34 pm

After a couple of emails from Alex I think I'm going to build a Elliptical inline head to go with his very fine condenser.

Regards,
BigA

Big J · Post by **Big J** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:36 am

Grayson_Stewart wrote: Some folks have trouble getting the salt back out after they have made the coil but I bought a $3 compression fitting that attaches 1/4
" tubing to a standard garden hose, placed this on the end of the newly formed coil, attached the garden hose and turned on the water...20 minutes later it was flowing freely. Just don't do this anywhere you ever want to grow grass again. Here's a pic of the coil when I was cleaning it out. http://tinyurl.com/4wjsn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks for the idea Grayson. It worked great on my coil. Took about 45 mins of just sitting there before the water flowed freely. Here's a pic of my connection:

Cheers,
J

rexxxlo · Post by **rexxxlo** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:42 pm

i have a single coil in my head and i didnt use sand, salt or a tubing bender

all i did was solder the end to a piece of 1 1/4" copper pipe then put that chunk of pipe in the vice so you can pull hard on the 1/4 " tubing and start wrapping and pulling tightly the whole time to get even coils i made mine about 12-14" long not exactally sure but it sufficently cools the steam that rises that far even if the water in my trash can pump setup gets warm

CopperMan · Post by **CopperMan** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:07 pm

When i used my 3/8 i used nothing except a gas pole. No kinks and it worked good. But now I just use a straight tube running down and through a bucket. Alot easier for me. My coils always trapped condensed alcohol in the middle?

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:16 am

Glad it worked for you Big J.

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:47 pm

Just a side note, you dont need salt if you buy 6mm soft drawn copper used in Airconditioning.

I will submit some pics of my condenser when I get time showing it, no packing was used, just started wrapping it by hand around a broom handle in one direction, then doubled back so both ends were at the top.

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:42 am

obviosly there must be some kind of hiden talent to bending tubing to make a coil. i have heard of several horror stories on this and other sites. i guess i was lucky. i used a pipe and rapped my 1/4 tubing around it all of it laying flat on the floor. the secret to me is to hold the pipe tite to the floor and twist it rather than actually winding the 1/4 tubing. the titer you hold the pipe to the floor the titer the coil will be. i didnt use anything like sand or salt either.

Kiint · Post by **Kiint** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:02 pm

I personally held the broom handle in a gapped section on a bench and had the missus twist the broom handle as I fed the copper on and coiled it (my hand and arm are giving me hell though as a result)

wineo · Post by **wineo** » Thu May 24, 2007 8:39 am

I know the salt takes a while to get in,and out,but you can bend that copper in to any conficuration,without it kinking,or flattening out.You just have to make sure its really full of salt.It also helps to dry out the salt first.It has moisture in it.Its easy to make a double coil this way,and by not having any kinks,or flat spots,you get good water flow through it.
Hooking a water hose to it will get the salt out,but it takes a while for it to dissolve.Ive got 18feet of 1/4 copper,double wound,inside the 2in head,on my nixon/stone,And it cools real good.
wineo

copperhead · Post by **copperhead** » Thu May 24, 2007 10:49 am

if you start with about a foot extra wrap acouple turns around broom handel or what ever.i sit down on a bucket hold the long end of the tube in lift hand broom handel in the other grip the tube tight trun the handel with your right hand remember you need to pull on the tube tight with one hand turn the other it will roll up just like a rope if you try to just wrap the tubing around the mandrel it will kink. just roll it on while pulling the long end tight.i have made sevrel with no sand salt or any thing in the tubing. take your time its hell on your arms but it works.

Home Distiller

need help with condenser.

need help with condenser.

Re: need help with condenser.

re:

3/16" pipe

Thanks for the post!

re:

Re: re:

RE:

RE: