Hello guys

[pro65]

Hello guys I just found this web site yesterday while looking on google. So yes I am new here,But I have a question. My great grand father and grandfather and my dad use to make moonshine but now my dad is the only one left and he wont teach me anything for fear of me getting in trouble. Anyway I have been reading and doing things on my own for about a year and a half now. I started with the easy way of sugar and water and turbo yeast. But i really wanted some good corn Whiskey like it was back in the day. So I purchased 10lbs of flaked maze corn, 5 pounds of 6 row barley malt,Gert Strand Prestige WD yeast, citric acid, and gypsum. I bought the book making pure corn whiskey by Ian Smiley and have followed the directions in it. our municipal tap water is 7.4 so I use 23L and add 2 TSP of gypsum to get my mash water down to between 5.2 to 6.0 .Sometimes I add citric acid to get it in range when the gypsum dont put it just right. After the water is prepared I heat it to 165deg and turn off the heat and add 8.8lbs of corn flaked maze and I stir the mash for about five minutes until it thickens and then I stir it every 5 minutes until the temp comes down to 152deg then I add 1.65lbs of barley malt mixing it well into the mash.Then I cover the mash pot and stir it every 15 minutes or so for 90 minutes. At this point i will do a iodine starch test to make sure its ready. I then let it cool to 100deg or less. Then I poor the mash into the ferminter and back to the cooker five or six times to oxygenat it. At this point I pitch my yeast and let it sit on top of the mash for 30 minutes and then I stir it all in very good. I put on my top with my airlock until fermintation is complete. Then I strain the batch, and mash the juice from the flaked maze using a fruit press. Then I run it off. can anyone that has been doing this for years tell me a better way? or maybe add or change the way I am doing something. The taste is good and has a decent corn flavor but I would like to have more flavor and less bite. I use distiled water to cut it to 40% - 45%. Every thing I read talks about SG what is this and how do you do it and how important is it? Sorry for the long post but I am just excited to find a place that I can get some answers from. Thanks in advance.

[Hack]

SG is starting gravity. It's a measure of fermentable sugars in a mash and is used to estimate the potential alcohol after fermentation. To me SG isn't vitally important as something needing measured to the n'th degree. I'm happy enough to get it roughly accurate, but it can be a helpful thing to know when diagnosing problems with your process.

As far as more flavor and less bite, that will come with practice. I'm still working at that myself, but am making progress. Maybe take a look at how you are making your cuts, how much you let your wash settle before distilling, and how hard you run your rig. It could be something aelse too.

Duh! I just remembered I replied to one of your other posts where you were saying you were mixing your heads with your hearts and carbon filtering. Separating your heads from your hearts will make a HUGE difference in reducing the bite of your hooch!

EDIT- Just wanted to add that aging a few months on oak can reduce the bite as well as airing out your spirit for a week or so. Leave the lids off the storage containers and cover with a coffee filter or cloth.

[trthskr4]

Your process is ok, corn mashes in general are a pita anyway and if you do figure out an easy way let us all know. No pain no gain. Gypsum, if I'm not having a total brain fart is for bringing the PH up not down. Always do cuts, that's where the gravy is in this hobby. If you want heads in your whiskey, pick up a bottle of commercial stuff. Carbon filtering will strip out all of the corn flavor so if you have carbon filtered any of your corn whiskey then you put good stuff in and got vodka out. Save the low wines (and heads if you like, I throw them away) and a gallon or so of the backset in the still after running and then make another mash with say 25% of the liquid used being the backset from the still. Do this a couple or more times and you won't have to worry about your PH after about the 3rd time except to use the gypsum to bring it to a more base ph. Run your output at about the size of a pencil lead of flow, if you have to run 2 or 3 times to get the abv up so what that's even better IMO. Keep the final run of the spirit to below 80% (for the commercial definition of "whiskey"). What kind of still are you running, cooling management? You need to detune a reflux still for whiskey, and run it like a pot. After all is said and done you should have about 450 gallons or so of low wines and 3 quarts of hearts...JUST KIDDING. I think most call the better half of their run the hearts so about 50% of the total run is likely to be the hearts. I personally keep about 30-45% but I'm really picky if I'm drinking it. The moral of the story here though is never ever ever drink heads without a gun being pointed at yours. Seriously, you'll have more hangovers etc that way. Keep it clean, keep it safe.


TRTH

[HookLine]

Gypsum (calcium sulphate) should not alter pH if it is below about 8.4. From memory what gypsum does is help prevent pH from falling (ie it 'buffers' the pH against change), which not quite the same thing as initially changing pH.

Having said that, most gypsum you can buy is not pure and has a little bit of lime (calcium carbonate) in it, so it may initially raise pH slightly.

And folks, could you please use the occasional paragraph break. Large unbroken blocks of text are hard work to read.

[Godstilla]

Invite your Dad over when you are mashing. Moonshining is in his blood. I'm sure he'd have a hard time not helping you.

[trthskr4]

And folks, could you please use the occasional paragraph break. Large unbroken blocks of text are hard work to read.

Sorry Hook, I always do that too.

Never realized it was a problem for anyone.

I'll try to remember that from now on.



I stand partly corrected on the gypsum.

[Keyser Soze]

....... Run your output at about the size of a pencil lead of flow, if you have to run 2 or 3 times to get the abv up so what that's even better IMO. Keep the final run of the spirit to below 80% (for the commercial definition of "whiskey"). What kind of still are you running, cooling management? You need to detune a reflux still for whiskey, and run it like a pot. After all is said and done you should have about 450 gallons or so of low wines and 3 quarts of hearts...JUST KIDDING. I think most call the better half of their run the hearts so about 50% of the total run is likely to be the hearts......
TRTH

I think you just answereed m question from the sharp distillate post. I did run it that way for my UJSM and the ABV was lower, but it was slightly smoother. Thanks

[HookLine]

Sorry Hook, I always do that too.

Never realized it was a problem for anyone.

Fair enough.

One of the basic rules of standard document formatting is if at all possible don't have large unbroken blocks of text. Check any large serious document.

Particularly important rule when your readers are voluntary (ie they don't have to read what you wrote). They will tend to give up after 10-20 lines, and even if they get through all of the text the chances that they will miss or misread parts of it increases dramatically.

Also very helpful for people whose eyesight is not so good. We're not all young whippersnappers anymore.

[pro65]

Gypsum (calcium sulphate) should not alter pH if it is below about 8.4. From memory what gypsum does is help prevent pH from falling (ie it 'buffers' the pH against change), which not quite the same thing as initially changing pH.

Having said that, most gypsum you can buy is not pure and has a little bit of lime (calcium carbonate) in it, so it may initially raise pH slightly.

And folks, could you please use the occasional paragraph break. Large unbroken blocks of text are hard work to read.

Sorry I did not think about it either. Thanks to all who have replied. I just found out that my hydrometer is from germany and only has 1 scale so I did not know how everyone was getting readings like 1070 or 1080.

But the fellow at brewhouse told me to just ad 10 befor my scale number.

For example if it was setting in the starting mash at the 80 mark I would read it as 1080 and if at the end it is - 9 that would be .900 is this really the corect way?

[Husker]

If your hydro is a wort hydro, then 1 is 1000 (or 1.000, etc). This is what water (distilled) should weigh at the proper temp for the hydro.

Then, if this is the case, 1.02 on your unit would equate to 1020, and would be 20 points "heavier" than plain water. I have a German made hydro that has a scale of '1' also. I do not use that hydro too often, because the range on it's neck is only about 2 inches, which is simply too short to be very accurate. My good hydro has a scale that is almost 7" long (10" total length of the hydro). It is much easier to get an accurate reading. They both have the same "range", from 970 to 1130 (I think 1130, as am doing this from memory, at work right now).

H.

[pro65]

Hello Husker. My hydrometer is abot 10 inches long. The bottom part of it has counter weight for making that end sink into the mash. It is where the glass is the biggest around. The scale starts there at 130 and goes down ( towrd the top skinny area) To minus 16. In incruments of 2 (!130-128-126 and so forth)

It has GERMANY WIDDER DECHSLE 20C all of this at the bottom fat area.

on top skinny area it has WEIN

Any help that I can get to figure this out would greatley be aprecated. if i cant use this one to be able to read the numbers that yall use 1060-1070 so fourth please tell me wher I can purchase the one I need.

Thanks to all Derrell (pro65)

[brewmaker1]

That looks like a Brix meter. Good for measuring sugar in fruit juice and wine, but not so good for understanding what's talked about here. You can get a hydrometer for measuring mash at a local brew store and buy an alcometer for measuring spirits online. Or get em both online. Brewhaus sells both online.

[Tatt2d]

Heres another bit of input for your gypsum question...

I haven't double checked yet but, in Wineos Plain Ol' Sugar Wash, Isn't one of his ingredients gypsum and dont they go into saying that it was for the water hardness?

I may be well off base on this i probably shoulda double checked before typing all this....

[trthskr4]

Yes Tatt2d it does and I had forgotten about that. Which also makes me think that salt is also used to soften hard water which I don't think you'd want to use salt in your mash, but some water sources may already have it in it.

Any one know what salinity in the water used to make a wash would do? Some individuals have salt softeners for their homes.

[pro65]

That looks like a Brix meter. Good for measuring sugar in fruit juice and wine, but not so good for understanding what's talked about here. You can get a hydrometer for measuring mash at a local brew store and buy an alcometer for measuring spirits online. Or get em both online. Brewhaus sells both online.

Thanks I have an alcoholometer For testing ABV. But my hydromiter is for taking a reading at the beginning of fermintation and then a reading at the end. So if I got a start reading of 83 and an end reading of 3 it would cauculate like this 83-3=80 DIVIDED by 8= 10% Alcohol.

[Tatt2d]

My figures for calculatin wash %alc is [ SG(startin specific grafivity) - FG(finishin gravity) ] X 129 = Wash %Alc

(1.083 - 1.003 ) * 129 =
.080 * 129 = 10.32 % ALC

There was another post discussing this - I think it was in WPOSW thread.
I'll use alot of references there only cuz thats all i've tried making so far - I'm still a noob...

[pro65]

Where Does the number 129 come from? Is that A number you use with your specific HYD.

The directions for mine say too take a starting reading by placing it in the starting fermentation and read the scale where the top of the liquid breaks on a number line on the HYD. At the end of fermentation drop the HYD back in and take a reading where the top of the liquid breaks on the number scale. Then subtract end Number from first number and then divide that by eight.

My last sugar batch went like this 6 US GAL water 17lbs 10oz of table sugar added 2 TSP citric acid cooked until sugar was well dissolved. turn off heat stir occasionally after temp comes down to pitching rate 100 DEG or less add yeast ( 48 hr turbo) I let it sit in top about five minutes then stir it all together very good. Put my top on with air lock and I let it set for 7-10 days for Higher alcohol %.

Then after i take my end reading I syphon off to second fermenter for a few days to clear. When it has cleared enough I take my strainer and put it on my still and lay several layers of cheese cloth in my strainer and then I syphon from second fermenter through cheese cloth and strainer when all is in I attach the column and start running it.

My last batch reading was start 120 end was minus 10 so that gave me a a total reading of 130 divided by 8=

120 + 10=130 Divided by 8= 16.25% alcohol that is ready to be run off.

[Tatt2d]

I figured your wash should be 14.19% by my formula.

I got the formula from the parent site, and I have no idea where they came up with 129. I'm sure it was from someone a whole smarter than me.

Heres the post that a few dicuss how it comes up. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... &sk=t&sd=a They aslo mention the number 125. Gets me to wondering if I've been doing it wrong all this time.

I'm pretty curious now how others calculate it now...

[brewmaker1]

My brew hydrometer has a % chart on it along with the specific gravity. Makes it a whole lot easier.

[pro65]

This is the directions i got with my HYD. word for word

The hydrometer is the most accurate way to determine if your brew or mash is finished making. Simply take a sample of your product in the test beaker and place your instrument inside, then read the scale where it breaks the surface of the liquid. Your beginning reading will be the potential for making alcohol and is typically 60 or higher. Take a reading every day and you will notice that the hydrometer reading drops. When the hydrometer quits dropping, then fermentation has stopped. If it reads -10 to -20, (the top black area) then you have done really well. To determine alcohol content in fermented mash, take a reading with the hydrometer at the beginning of fermentation then a reading at the end of fermentation and subtract the two. Then divide by 8 and you will have the percent alcohol. Example, the beginning reading is 83 and the end reading is 3. Then 83-3=80. 80 divided by 8 = 10% alcohol.

And like I have stated my scale is from 130 at bottom big area to -20 at small skinny area in the black.

[brewmaker1]

It's just using different numbers than specific gravity. No big deal unless you are trying to compare your numbers to specific gravity numbers. Out of curiosity, what does it read when you put it in tap water at 20 degrees (68f)?

[pro65]

I just checked it and at 68 deg with 100 ml it floats at the # 1 mark.

[smeag]

[HookLine]

Um, if I recall my lab days you don't read from the upper meniscus, you take the reading from the lower meniscus. (I think mercury is the exception, but that don't concern us.)

[brewmaker1]

Unless something has changed in the last ten years, Hookline is right.

Pro65, I found this little sentence in my research that may help you with your hydrometer " a specific gravity of 1.090 is the same as a gravity of 90. A specific gravity of 0.995 is a gravity of -5.".

With a hydrometer measuring specific gravity the magic number is 7.36. (1.083-1.003) / 7.36 = 10.87%
Yours is a little different, but close enough. The only time it would really matter is if you had to replace your hydrometer in the middle of a ferment. Then the numbers would be off.

[pro65]

Brewmaker thank you so much for the info. Now I can try my HYD using the scale you showed me and see how it works. Or do you think it would be better to purchas another HYD?

[Dnderhead]

why not when you can ( for 6-10$) git try scale has sugar/ SG/ potential alcohol and duel spirits that has percent/proof ( some has SG also)
no gassing no converting just read the scale. no hurry but it whould save the confusion

[Puma]

I have seen hydrometers like that before, they are just not adding the 1. to it. So a reading of 80 is the same as 1.080 and 130 is 1.130 SG. You don't need a new hydrometer the one you have is fine, it's just semantics really. The reason for that type of hydrometer is it's a little easier if you are working with GU's or gravity units (that is what it is showing). It's still just doin' the same thing though.

The way I have always calculated alcohol is:

Starting specific gravity, minus ending specific gravity, divided by 75.
(SSG - ESG)/.0075 = ABV

Calculating ABW:

Divide ABV by .795
ABV / .795 = ABW
Or the other way around, ABV / .795 = ABW * .795

However with your hydrometer you would divide by 7.5, because of the lack of decimal and all.

With a hydrometer measuring specific gravity the magic number is 7.36. (1.083-1.003) / 7.36 = 10.87%

May be more accurate, but they are both close enough for gov work.

[pro65]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I understand it now that it has been explained so from now on I can calculate my washes and make my post to where everyone knows what I am talking about. Again a big THANK YOU