uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Dnderhead]

in a wash like UJSM the amount of alcohol depends on the sugar content, some make a couple of striping runs , dilute to 50% with wash
(this gives more flavor) then do a spirit run. if your after flavor you should not run off higher than 80% . the higher the% the less flavor.
I keep most of mine between 65- 75%.

[Barney Fife]

My best UJSM has been 4 strip runs(collect everything 'cept the first 50ml), and on the 5th generation, I added all the strip run collections to the wash. Great heaps of flavor, very distinct cuts, and now, almost 2 months later, I'm sipping the first of it to test, and wow! Nice! It was the best, by far, straight off the still, and has kept that edge. Ess. Emm. Oooooooooooth. Tasty, too <lol>

So, don't worry with high gravity; keep it low, it'll ferment quick and clean, the strip runs take little time, and the final run is SO worth it.

[trthskr4]

For some reason I don't seem to get the same tasty smooth outcome that everyone else gets by doing just strip and spirit runs. So what I do is add the first strip to the next wash less the heads, then add this back to the next generation and then the next and then I keep that separate and so on which means each generation is triple distilled by the time I stop. I run them fast, even on a spirit run I run a little fast.

[theholymackerel]

For some reason I don't seem to get the same tasty smooth outcome that everyone else gets by doing just strip and spirit runs......... I run them fast, even on a spirit run I run a little fast.

That explains it. If ya do a spirit run too fast ya don't get good seperation and the final product is often rough.

Do a calm, slow, smooth spirit run next time. Then let us know if that helped.

[trthskr4]

Thanks THM, I'm still learning all the time too. I have 35 gallons of Wineo's sugar wash going now and 15 gallons of UJSM and will try a fast strip and slower spirit run.

[punkin]

For some reason I don't seem to get the same tasty smooth outcome that everyone else gets by doing just strip and spirit runs. So what I do is add the first strip to the next wash less the heads, then add this back to the next generation and then the next and then I keep that separate and so on which means each generation is triple distilled by the time I stop. I run them fast, even on a spirit run I run a little fast.

You just have to be losing product by doing that.
Every time i run my still i lose ethanol. Lately i've been redistilling a few batches of finnished product. I can put 30 litres of cut 65% whiskey in the still, water it down and end up with 20 litres of cut 65% whiskey.

I think you're method would be costing you yeild for very little gain in quality

[trthskr4]

I'm not sure about the loss, but I run deep into the tails (@20% or lower). I only do this on sugar washes, never ever ever run this way on all grain. That stuff's been too good to risk any loss.

I will attempt to assess the amount of loss as I always figured it was minimal for the quality gain. After all, if I can't drink what I make what's the use in doing it? I may also alter my methods totally after a post from THM about the quality.

Thanks.

[pro65]

OK I need an answer for this, I am doing a thin mash fermentation as we speak.

Ingredients 8.8lbs Corn flake maze steeped at 165deg , 1.65lbs pale 6row malt, steeped in maze at 152deg, 5.8 pH water 6GAL, let set for 2 hrs, and then starch test all good. Then to make it a thin mash , I take two 8gal fermenters and add 3 gallons of cold filtered tap water and add 8lbs of sugar to each fermenter.

At this point I pour half of my cooked product In each fermenter stir well and pitch yeast on top of both let yeast lay on top for 15 minutes and then stir it all in real good,add top and air lock and let fermentation start. I did pull some clear liquid off after the 90 minute conversion and tested to . (1065). Yest is Gert Strand Prestige WD 23gram.

Is this yeast a good yeast to use for UJSM?

Now this is what I need an answer on I want to Start a batch of UJSM. After the batch of thin is complete with FERM and racking can I pour all of the flaked maze and stuff together add enough water to cover maze.

Then run my thin wash through my still and collect back set and add sugar while its hot let it cool and start my first batch of UJSM.

Or should I toss the maze after fermentation of thin mash and use cracked corn?

Thanks to all Derrell
PS I did read all 27 pages of this UJSM before i asked. See punkin I can read some

[punkin]

That's the good thing about brewing and distilling, you can do whatever you want.

If you think you're question through, a couplea things come to mind.

1) the corn is mashed, so presumably all the available sugars have been removed. Whether that means all available flavour (which is what the corn is there for in ujsm) i don't know.

2) there will be some flavours left in the yeast bed, there may also be some enzymes from the malt.




The answer would be try it and see... or you could add some new corn and use some of the yeast bed, or you could start a whole new mash. I would definately use the backset.

[Hack]

Pro65, the starch in the cracked corn in UJSM supposedly converts slowly over time and is fermented. This is why the top layer of spent grains in the recipe are replaced with fresh cracked corn with each batch.

Like punkin said, I'd recommend using backset from your thin mash and I'd also save a yeast starter from it as well. I'd also be inclined to start with fresh cracked corn to start the UJSM.

[pro65]

Thanks punkin and hack I will play with it and see what happens.

I have another question i am scratching my head over now. I think this came from HUSKERS post.

"Quote by Husker"
If you have a reflux, which you cant really control (internal reflux, or something which is not insulated, and thus refluxes too much), then frequently, you will be better off simply taking it slow on the first run, and making proper cuts (thus single running it). If you run like this, then simply take the whole 1st run (your sweet run), and dump that 1st distillate into your 2nd (sour) run. that 2nd run will be larger than your 1st run (since it is your first run, plus the sour run). From that point on, simply dump your heads and tails into the next run, and continue to "single" run things

This is what I use the column is 2" and packed with SS scrubbers, water goes through (not around) the column using the 2 3/8" pipes. and goes around my cooling arm or whatever you want to call it. Arm is1/2" inside with 1" wraped around it for cooling. flowes from lower 3/8 upward and out top 3/8.

my single run batches usually start out around 86% whether its grain or suger batches,i run heat low and start water at first sight of steam out catching arm and dont regulate the flow of water because i am using a small aguarium pump.

My question is should I remove the packing and do a beer stripping run ? ( which by the way I have never done on any of my past runs at all and i have ran around 40-45 or so, I usually just do a spirit run on each batch.) or like the quote above says just make single runs?

[Monster Mash]

So far I have always done cooker mash recepies for whiskey. I want to try the traditional sour mash coming up but I have alot of flaked maize around. How good does flaked maize work in this type of recepie vs cracked corn or a corn meal?

[captstill215]

Ok I read most of the post and searched, couldn't find an answer. Are any of you using a thumper? Or should I disconnect it and run straight to the worm?

[Hack]

I use a thumper when I run my UJSM. Works just fine.

[captstill215]

Thanks Hack. What do you charge your thumper with? I was going to use some mash. Capt S

[Hack]

My thumper fills itself with low wines. Mash will work too.

[irish69]

Hi
So I started my first batch of ujsm about 3 days ago. I used 5lbs of 6 row malt, 9lbs of cornmeal, 14lbs sugar and 10gals water. I pitched this with Premier whiskey yeast.

When I first mixed everything up a lot of junk came to the top. From what I've read, this seems normal. I'm wondering though, between this and the cap, how do I tell when ebullition is over? I've read that sometimes the cap falls and sometimes it doesn't. Will this floating stuff fall with the cap? Also, I can't really see any signs of bubbling unless I break the cap. To do this I moved the container around a bit, to prevent contaminating it by putting anything in there. Is this normal? It might be a bit too cold where I have it now. I think today I'm going to get an aquarium heater to put in there to warm it up.

Another thing- on another thread I was told that cornmeal will work for this recipe. While I was reading this thread I noticed someone said that cornmeal shouldn't be used. Which is the right way to go? I already had the bag of cornmeal when I started, which is why I didn't use the cracked corn from the start. Should I use the rest of my meal in subsequent fermentations and then switch to cracked, or should I just do the next fermentation switching to cracked corn right off?

Sorry for all the questions, I tried reading through the thread to find the answers before I posted.

[Hawke]

when you do your next batch, dump your water, sugar and backset in from a decent hieght. This will stir things up enough to bring the lighter stuff to the top. I like to skim this off of mine. From the 3rd set on, I would start skimming off the corn meal before resetting the wash and replacing it with cracked corn

[smeag]

when you do your next batch, dump your water, sugar and backset in from a decent hieght. This will stir things up enough to bring the lighter stuff to the top. I like to skim this off of mine. From the 3rd set on, I would start skimming off the corn meal before resetting the wash and replacing it with cracked corn

Glad I read this, I thought I would experiment alittle on my 5th generation since the 4th fermented so slow. I aerate my clean water and dumped it in the vessel very slowly (unlike in the past generations) trying not to disturb the corn bed so much. Still have to add backset, so I'll dump from above to stir things up some and not experiment.
thanks

[smeag]

I'm on my 5th generation now (11 days kinda slow still even after aerating), I started out using whiskey yeast with Amyloglucosidase (AG). Does the AG also keep rejuvenating along with the yeast?

[Hack]

I've had things slow down after the fifth generation or so also even though pH and temp were good. What had happened on mine was that the bottom couple inches of the grain bed was clogged with gunk. If you have a clear fermenter you can see this. When I started the next generation I scooped off the grains that were still good and set them aside. THen I scooped out the clogged stuff and threw it away. I put the good stuff I'd set aside back and replaced the grains I had thrown away. Then I mixed the next generation as usual. It made a big difference.

[Keyser Soze]

I have my 5th generation in the can right now and I have not had any real trouble with the bubbles. When I siphon off the beer I scrape the grey used corn off the top ( 1/4 inch) and then I stir the remainder around after adding fresh corn in the same amount. Last time I added 1 qt mason jar full of 2 row malt and 1 qt of flaked rye to it, and skipped the corn. It slowed a little, but the next one fermented in record time. 1 week. I have to admit though, I have not been distilling it down below 50%. I stop there and then mix the backset. It's getting smoother, but I have not been using the lower wines for feints, I mixed them with water to 40% and drank some of those, and it is very tasty. Getting real smooth. Saving the rest for a wood barrel . I need ten liters of pure goodness for to fill the barrel, and then I wait to take some for a couple months.

Next batch, I mix in all the collected spirit below 65% to the still to see if it smooths out some more. Saving some for a tails run, I'll collect down to 30% from now on.

[irish69]

I started out using whiskey yeast with Amyloglucosidase (AG). Does the AG also keep rejuvenating along with the yeast?

No, it won't. AG is an enzyme, which means it is non-living and cannot reproduce like the yeast does. Chances are that you lost all the AG in the wash after your first generation. It most likely went into the still and when the enzyme is heated it gets destroyed. If you want to continue using AG you'll have to add it each time you add more sugar, water and backset. Just make sure you don't add it to hot backset, treat it the same as you would yeast. I'm pretty new to all this, so I'm just speculating based on my knowledge of biology, but I'm positive about the regenerating part.

[HartShot]

Getting ready to run second generation UJSM. (used backset from first run and saved rest for a run with some sugar strip i have) I have a (brewhaus PSII)6 gal ss cooker with a 2" x 18" ss (pot) column. The plan is save up about 3 stripped runs and charge for a spirit run. Question. Do i want to run this detuned or should i pack the column with copper scrubbers? And, if i should use the scrubbers, on the stripping run, spirit run or both?

[olddog]

I am now fermenting my 5th generation of UJSSM, my fermenter is semi transparent and I can see the corn through the fermenter wall. I have noticed on the last fermentation and currently on this fermentation that under the corn there is a creamy putty like substance. Is this normal?

When preparing my next ferment I dissolve my suggar in hot backset, I also add my next addition of corn to this mixture, I then wait a few hours until cool enough to add to the original wash, so I guess the corn gets semi cooked during this period, Is this OK or should I be adding the corn to the cool mix?

[Dnderhead]

"" under the corn there is a creamy putty like substance. Is this normal?""
Yes that is the "turb" protein/ germ etc that wont ferment. makes happy chickens.

[Hawke]

Getting ready to run second generation UJSM. (used backset from first run and saved rest for a run with some sugar strip i have) I have a (brewhaus PSII)6 gal ss cooker with a 2" x 18" ss (pot) column. The plan is save up about 3 stripped runs and charge for a spirit run. Question. Do i want to run this detuned or should i pack the column with copper scrubbers? And, if i should use the scrubbers, on the stripping run, spirit run or both?

Packing will strip quite a bit of the flavor. When I run this, I may put one scrubber into the bottom of the column to prevent any puking. (not real common with this recipe)

[1fourme]

Hi,
The UJSM wiki link is not working.
I am about to start a UJSM and was wondering if anyone has tried this, or if it would require a full boil mash instead.
5lbs cracked corn
2 lbs flaked rye
1 lb malted rye
ALL rye in a grain bag for easy removal/replacement.
6-7 lbs sugar to 1.08-9
Following UJSM recipe
What I would to make is something similar to Old Grand-Dad that has a grain bill of 63 corn 27 rye 10 barley.
I have tried grain bill calculators and this should be close.
I have a setup like the one in Ian's pure corn book 1st edition 1 1/4"head with copper mesh, setting on a half keg with 1500 watt 120 v element.
Ok what do you think?
Also I have read several places on the site over the years, talking about scorching the whiskey and was wondering if this might be of help.
I read in a old book somewhere, that they use to place a pan with 2-3 inches of sand over the firebox then set their stills on top
to evenly distribute the heat to keep from scorching the whiskey.
Thanks

[skidude]

Ya, the UJSM wiki link and the whole wiki site isn't working for me either, and right when I need a copy of it. Is it posted anywhere else?

[distillnut]

it looks like the entire wiki table was removed from the database. Hope they have a backup! was anyone able to find a copy of this recipe?