Yeast nutrient options

[blind_starfish]

I am looking to use a neutral wash recipe similar to that developed by Wineo, but here in New Zealand, DAP seems difficult to come by unless you want to purchase in bulk 40kg+ bags. Certainly I could use alternative fertilisers, but the trouble seems to be that they all contain urea. The combination of alcohol and urea supposedly forms Ethyl Carbamate when heated, and Ethyl Carbamate is known to be cancer causing. While we can probably debate the claim, or debate the amount produced, the fact is that my partners family has a history of cancer, and therefore we take such things seriously and wouldn't even want to be taking any kind of chance.

But anyway, what I am ultimately trying to ask, is whether anyone has tried to use more 'organic' means of supplying yeasts with nutrients. For example, seaweed, fish or blood and bone fertilisers? (perhaps some of which may also contain traces of urea? - I don't know yet). Tomato paste seems to be a favourite amongst some, but there is talk of the final product containing impurities that need to be removed. These 'organic' fertilisers tend to be pungent, and I am concerned that flavours and odours may result in the final product.

[Barney Fife]

I hear you on the cancer concerns. family here is prone to it also.

Skip the fertilsers. Buy a kilo of yeast, add it to a 3 quart pan of water, and boil it. Add a pint o this to your ferments. Or, even simpler, use any grain with your sugar wash; all grains contain everything the yeast need, and once refluxed, the flavors are lost anyhow. See DWWG for a great starting place.

[zymos]

Wanted to point out that DAP is a nitrogen source, so many of the things you listed aren't really comparable anyway (seaweed, bonemeal ).

The yeast is a good idea- I often use a bit of nutritional yeast from the health food store for fermentations that are nutrient poor. A spoonful or 2 of malt extract is also a good supplement.
Powdered milk maybe...?

[RumBull]

I have seen fertilizer for orchids at the store that are high in nitrogen and list "no urea" on the label.

[eternalfrost]

instead of buying yeast you can use the left over dead yeast on the bottom of the fermenter.

when you rack off your wash, shake up whats left of the liquid and get all the solid stuff mixed up then pour some off into a pot and boil it for awhile to break down the yeast.

[gravy]

DAP is the nitrogen source of choice and is available in grades appropriate for human consumption. If you're looking for an organic alternative try (dead) brewers yeast. You can find reasonably priced stockfood grades that are at least intended for consumption by a living animal.

There is lots of research in this area on the net, but its very much skewed to the wine industry. Brewers yeast isn't a popular nitrogen source with wine makers, not because yeast doesn't like it, but because you get wine that tastes like vegemite. Aim for about 300mg/L YANC (Yeast Assimilible Nitrogen Content) to give the yeast the best growth environment. Using estimates, brewers yeast is ~50% protein and protein is ~16% nitrogen, so try 100g of brewers yeast in a 25 litre brew to get the 300mg/L. Molasses is a good organic source of pretty much everything else except nitrogen.

I use DAP, urea and brewers yeast - just drop the first two and crank up the last one as above. My brew consists of DAP (40g), urea (60g), brewers yeast (50g), molasses (1.6kg), white sugar (27kg), yeast Uvafrem 43 (35g) and water to 100 litres. The yeast dregs from the last batch stay in the bottom for the next. I ferment at around 28 degrees and If I make it on Saturday its fermented to dryness (>18%) ready for distillation the next weekend.

I'm not sure if it qualifies as a neutral recipe though, cos the result looks like muddy water and tastes no better. What I'm really aiming for is inexpensive, and neutralising is done during the distillation. You would need to be able to pull distillate across above 90% to avoid too much "character".

[Freedave]

Using estimates, brewers yeast is ~50% protein and protein is ~16% nitrogen, so try 100g of brewers yeast in a 25 litre brew to get the 300mg/L. Molasses is a good organic source of pretty much everything else except nitrogen.

gravy, great info here. thanks much. someone recently asked for some specific yeast nutrient facts and i don't think he got them in his thread. hope he sees this.

wouldn't this yeast meant for nutrients need to be boiled first? ignore if you said that.

has any one tried drying their dunder/lees for later use as nutrients? why dry it you ask? i don't know , just a thought. maybe easier to measure, may keep longer if dry. just wondering.

[Hawke]

wouldn't this yeast meant for nutrients need to be boiled first? ignore if you said that.

has any one tried drying their dunder/lees for later use as nutrients? why dry it you ask? i don't know , just a thought. maybe easier to measure, may keep longer if dry. just wondering.

The brewers yeast doesn't really need boiling.
Eternalfrost answered this second one already. Once you rack off your wash, mix up the lees, pour in a pot and boil. Put it in the appropriate container and keep in the fridge or freezer, depending on how long you want to keep it.

[Freedave]

wouldn't this yeast meant for nutrients need to be boiled first? ignore if you said that.

has any one tried drying their dunder/lees for later use as nutrients? why dry it you ask? i don't know , just a thought. maybe easier to measure, may keep longer if dry. just wondering.

The brewers yeast doesn't really need boiling.
Eternalfrost answered this second one already. Once you rack off your wash, mix up the lees, pour in a pot and boil. Put it in the appropriate container and keep in the fridge or freezer, depending on how long you want to keep it.

I apologize for high jacking this thread but it's sort of related.
I was wondering about drying out the lees/dunder so that it could be ground into a powder. I imagine then it could be stored at room temp. And measured out in tablespoons rather than cups/milliliters.

[Hawke]

I guess it could be dried. Boil it down until you had most of the liquid out. Then put it in a dehydrater or an oven on warm to finish it.

[blind_starfish]

A bit of un update - I've found some brewers yeast (the inactive stuff, that I think is used as a health supplement), and boiled up about 300 grams. Added it to 4kg sugar, 25l water, and a bit of bakers yeast. Wash was bubbling away nicely within a few hours. Will post full details when I have tasted the end result.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

[rabbit_]

is it like this stuff?

http://www.healtheries.co.nz/page.php?id=25&prod=1188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Theres a nice breakdown on that site. I'm tempted to try a brew with some...No nitrogen though.

[blanikdog]

... but because you get wine that tastes like vegemite. ...

What's wrong with that? Vegemite wine? Hmmmmm I may try that.

blanik

[Dnderhead]

If you just use the yeast it can be dried but if you take the turb , it will turn to something like rubber.