Cooling flow?

[c-and-b]

Hello, first post on the board, but I've been lurking around here for some time, learning lots! I have one of the Pro Series II units from Brewhaus and have been very pleased with it so far. I've run one batch of Pintoshine's fast fermenting molasses recipe, one UJSM batch, and my own variation on Pint's recipe using corn syrup instead of molasses. All with good results and some drinkable spirits...so thanks to all of you for getting me this far!

Now when I started doing this it was during the summer when I could run water through it from a garden hose, then right back out into the yard to water the garden etc. Didn't feel like I was wasting water and it kept a completely cold flow going through the unit for the whole batch.

However since it's winter now and I hate to waste water by just running it down the drain, I'm now having some trouble keeping it cool enough (or what I think is cool enough). I went to the farm & ranch store and bought myself a pump like what you'd use to clear a flooded basement or some such. It will darn sure move some water but I'm not sure how much of a hill it could climb. I run the bathtub about half full and use that for my cooling water. I also set several gallon jugs of frozen water in the tub.

The average batch that I've been making is about 5 gal in the fermenter, so I run it through the still in 2 batches of 2.5 gal each. By the second batch the cooling water is getting pretty darn hot, and the distillate is coming out of the output is hot to the touch! The hose connected to the intake to the pump got so warm that it was sucked flat!

So my question is: Am I running the still too hot or am I just going to have to come up with a better way of cooling it down?

[Dnderhead]

some of the heat could be coming from the pump,if it is being restricted. should take about 5 gal. to cool 5.a bit more to be on the safe side.
sounds like your trying pull the water. a pump will push much easer.

[rubber duck]

Dunders got it right, thats a big pump and it's heating up your cooling water. Try a small pond pump Like 5 or 10 bucks small, ( the cheepest you can get) If it doesn't work return it. All you need to do is keep the water moving.

[Dnderhead]

you can also put a bypass to return nuneaded water to its sorse.

[LWTCS]

Genius Dunder.

Thats the new plan for my dog dish. My 350 gph is way way to much.

and dampering back water flow acts like my poor pump will blow apart.

By pass. Got it.

[Dnderhead]

a T ,,a valve ,, maybe some hose barbs ,,depending on your setup. put T in presser line ,the valve so it returns back to tank.
open valve less water ,, close- more. this can be made of PVC as it will just be cooling water. I whould sugest not gitting
a ball valve as they are hard to ajust. (keep fitings the size of pump outlet and reduce after T for size to still.)

(open valve all the way,, turn on pump--close valve untill you have flow you want.)

[LWTCS]

(keep fitings the size of pump outlet and reduce after T for size to still.)

(open valve all the way,, turn on pump--close valve untill you have flow you want.)

Yep.

Soon as you said bypass that came to mind iggzackly.

[c-and-b]

Thanks guys!!! I never would have thought of the pump adding it's own heat to the flow! I'll be damned. When I finished my last batch the pump was pretty warm, but I chalked that up to the heat from the still.

The outfit that I bought came with a little aquarium pump and I chuckled to think that could possibly do any good. But if the key is just to keep water moving it will probably work just fine.

Thanks again!

[HookLine]

By-pass diagram

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p6793858

[CoOkEd]

be careful with "Try a small pond pump Like 5 or 10 bucks small, ( the cheepest you can get)" . I just purchased an aquarium pump on final sale (can't take it back) for $15 but it wasn't able to push water through my leibig or able to lift water from a 5 gallon bucket on the floor to one on the bench through a 1/2" hose. It moved lots of water on the horizontal or up out of the bucket about 8 inches but any more it couldn't handle. I suspect if i switch to a smaller hose diameter (which I don't have atm) I can get it to move water from the bottom bucket to the top. Just make the pump you get is capable of lifting water the height you need.

[Dnderhead]

try puting a return line back into the water, once lines are full the pump just needs to cercalate and not lift.

[rubber duck]

Pond pump not aquarium.

[Bobbydog]

I used a pond pump myself for my very first run and it worked great. I think it cost me 20 bucks Cdn for the little 110V submersible. I had it pumping water from a 20 litre bucket on my workbence with ice in it up to the stillhead which is about 7 feet up, so I can verify that some pond pumps can pump uphill at least 5 feet and still cool enough. I used 3/8" clear vinyl hose from the pond pump which sits submerged at the bottom of the bucket. I made a bunch of blocks of ice from plastic cups and added them to the cooling bucket as I thought it needed it. Worked pretty good but was way too much work for me. Since then I just use tap water (from my well) and discharge down the drain I've never actually sat down and figured out how much its costing me for electricity, but I dont think it would be much. Hope this helps.. Good luck

Bob

[Nightforce]

Same here; gonna be a waster. Tried all kinds of methods, but even recirculating the 18 gallon barrel I use just gets to hot and have to change it out every hour or so. Not real fun messing with 50°C water while the still is going. Even put in a small radiator block and that extends the time a little bit but if you're looking at a 4+ hour run you'll have to change the water at least once. I do notice that if I can discharge only, I can cut the flow rate way back and discharge just a fraction of the water but at a much higher temp.

[Dnderhead]

Somthing Iv been wondering about I wont try as I don't need to but try running from one barrel discharg to another
next time run it back. that way you wont be heating your cooling water. if some one tryes let us know.

[Vodka_Master]

I just finished my reflux still and got the same problem. The only access to water we have is a garden hose outside, and its unusable during winter. So we made our own cooling system with a big bucket and a aquarium pump ( 80 gal/h). We were able to put the bucket high up so no problem with the whole fact that it would need to pump 7 ft up. After a test run with just water, the cooling water was getting way too hot ( a bit over 1h till the bucket got warm to the touch) and so we got a radiator ( triple radiator used in computer water cooling) with a powerfull fan. We will also fill the bucket up half way and freeze it, add more water and then run it. We just hope it lasts at least 5h or more before we need to change or add more ice. Anyone know of other ways to keep the water in a closed cycle cool? Other than bigger bucket.

[airhill]

There still appears to be some confusion about pumping .

Assuming we are talking about centrifugal pumps.

Head is measured from water level, not where the pump is.

Max head is a level at which no water will flow ie the impeller is trashing water.

If you are looping from a water source back to a water source and its a closed system (which most are) the only requirement for head is to get it over the highest point.

Once water has moved to the outlet (water level) siphoning effect will negate the need for head ie the only slight losses on the system will be friction on the pipes.

If you have a small pump and it won't reach head, suck on the outlet, once it is over the top it should work.

Most aquarium and pond pumps (submersible) use the water surrounding and going through to cool them, you are running into dangerous territory once the water reaches 40c and the better quality ones have thermal cutouts.

Only CM's really need controllable water flow.

[Nightforce]

My pump is a magnetic drive 158 gph job and specs say it can pump to a 4'11" head. I've not tried it in a closed circuit, I've always had it discharge slightly above the water surface to monitor both flow and temp. I'll try it just for grins and giggles to see if it works better. It's still going to be easier for me to put in a drain and a hose bib and run it that way.

Vodka master,
You'll notice a big difference in heat up time of your water barrel when actually distilling alcohol because ethanol's heat of condensation is about 2.6 times less. With a reflux still, that barrel should probably give you 2-2.5 hours before reaching the same temperature for the water run, maybe more.

[airhill]

Nightforce

Mag pumps are centrifugal, sounds like you have a high volume low head impeller. The hight that you are discharging above the water line would be the head it is having to push (plus friction).
Sounds like you have a water volume heat ratio problem rather than a pump problem and reducing head wouldn't help its get a bigger container or as you intend run min volume to waste .