Best additions to UJSM

[Maynard]

I have 5 gal of 4th gen UJSM getting ready to finish up fermenting and want to start adding different grains now. I know I can get flaked rye and an assortment of malted grains at the brew store.
So what is everyones favorite modifications/additions to UJSM? And at what ratios.

[olddog]

One pound of rolled barley.

[kiwistiller]

I think my best one was 50% corn, 20% barley malt, 20% rye, 10% wheat.

[plonker]

I'm on 10th gen and still think i need more.. I would wait until you are further along..

Oh and BTW I use close to 100% backwash with a bit of calcium carbonate for PH leveling.

[Maynard]

I am learning and just want to try something different to see what the flavor possibilities are. I do enjoy the regular ujsm aged on oak after a couple weeks.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Should I separate the non corn grains in a pouch for removal later or just add everything to the mix?

[W.S.C.beachman]

I am doing my 50% back set of UJSSM right now and doing the Spirit run of the 25% back set as I type. Thanks for the thread cause once I do a spirit run of the 50% backset I am going to start to mess with adding different things. Question though..when you add the barley or grains or what ever does it have to be cooked. We don't cook the corn so we don't cook the addins??

[kiwistiller]

yup just chuck it all in. it's a pretty robust recipe, hard to bugger it up

[W.S.C.beachman]

Thanks Kiwi,
Then what would be the differnce boiling every thing with out using sugar and doing it this way.

[trthskr4]

You mean doing an all-grain mash? Without sugar? It's more work, lower yields (depending) but better rounded product in the end that can actually fit the legal definition of "whiskey". It's really preference in the end. To me anything with white sugar in it has a terrible bite to it.

[kiwistiller]

Then what would be the differnce boiling every thing with out using sugar and doing it this way.

um. the boiling everything, and without sugar

To elaborate on that a bit, doing 'all grain' requires cooking and mashing with malt / enzymes to convert starches in the grain to fermentable sugars. A 'sugarhead' moonshiney sort of recipe like this has some grain chucked in to basically flavour the water, and uses processed sugars for the yeast to eat.

edit- trth beat me to it.

[olddog]

Unless you have the capacity to do large ferments, the distilate output is less for all grain than you get with a sugarhead as it ferments to a lower ABV. I tried all grain, but I do not have the means to dispose of all the spent grain after fermentation.

[trthskr4]

I tried all grain, but I do not have the means to dispose of all the spent grain after fermentation.

Suggestion: Buy a small pig, later on smoke ham and pork chops with the used oak.

[Dnderhead]

"later on smoke ham and pork chops with the used oak."
mairanated from inside out with wiskey grains.

[W.S.C.beachman]

Kiwi you always crack me up,
Yah I guess is what I was getting at was taste wise. I know that doing an all grain would be a lot more work. I was just thinking with this recipe in particular what would be the taste difference from doing all grain vs sugar. Less %alch all grain but a better taste, with sugar more alch. but not as smooth a taste. Cool got it!! I am sure there is a middle ground as well. like doing an all grain then adding sugar for a bit more alch. or would that be defeating the purpose??

[kiwistiller]

I have heard of folks doing an all grain mash and then adding some sugar back for volume. It's a taste compromise.

[rubber duck]

I do all grain but I think a good addition would be oats. I like to use 10% oats in most of my whiskeys, it smoothes out the corn bite like wheat and ties every thing together.

I can't figure out why more distillers don't use oats. Try it I think you will like the results.

[Maynard]

Thanks everyone, picked up some light malted barley and some flaked rye to try on the next generation. Probably add a little more than a pound of each instead of adding more corn. Then oats next time, can you use regular oatmeal you get at the grocery store?

[Bull Rider]

Rubber Duck:
Can you post your recipe for a corn/oatmeal/barley mash, or can you direct me to a thread where it's been posted? I've been making UJSM and I'm going to move on to a "real" corn type mash. I've been an all grain beer brewer for some time and I want to make great whiskey.

I've read every thread about corn mashing. There's about a handful of distillers on this forum that have a system for making a true corn mash, and I've read all of their posts.

I'm going to order some of the enzymes from MileHi, and I have a 50 pound bag of two row malted barley, plus a 50 pound bag of cracked corn, plus a 50 pound bag of cracked corn with wheat. I have two keggles for cooking in and two turkey burners.

It would be nice (fantastic) if there could be a sticky about corn mashing where all of the "masters" can share and post what works for them, and what doesn't.

Thanks!

[W.S.C.beachman]

I 2nd that Bull Rider!!! Ill get oats and barley for the next gen. UJSM. Ill do all grains but for now Ill stick with UJSM.

[W.S.C.beachman]

MR. RuberDucky,
Hey how much of that Rolled Oats would you put in a 5 gallon ferment of UJSSM?
How much Rolled Barley as well??
When I go to the home brew shop they got a crap load of grains, barleys, oats and all kinds of stuff I feel like a 6 year old at Toys R Us....

[rubber duck]

I use 10% oats give or take in my whiskey grain bill. Your not going to notice a oat flavor but it will round off the edges. It works kinda like using wheat but I like it better.

Oats and wheat smooth things out, but you don't get much flavor.
Rye gives a nice sharp bite and a good flavor.
Rolled barely adds complexity.
There are so many grains out there that the possible combinations are endless, and then there are the toasted and roasted grains.

It's all a matter of taste, just start messing around with different grains. No matter what you use it's going to be good.

That's the fun thing about corn whiskey there are so many ways to make subtle changes, and come up with a product that is uniquely yours.

[cornwhiskey]

Rubber Duck:
Can you post your recipe for a corn/oatmeal/barley mash, or can you direct me to a thread where it's been posted? I've been making UJSM and I'm going to move on to a "real" corn type mash. I've been an all grain beer brewer for some time and I want to make great whiskey.

I've read every thread about corn mashing. There's about a handful of distillers on this forum that have a system for making a true corn mash, and I've read all of their posts.

I'm going to order some of the enzymes from MileHi, and I have a 50 pound bag of two row malted barley, plus a 50 pound bag of cracked corn, plus a 50 pound bag of cracked corn with wheat. I have two keggles for cooking in and two turkey burners.

It would be nice (fantastic) if there could be a sticky about corn mashing where all of the "masters" can share and post what works for them, and what doesn't.

Thanks!

Ditch the 2-row and get 6-row barley instead, you don't need enzymes if you use Whiskey yeast with AG as they are already in there, if you use another yeast you can also just add 1 drop of liquid Beano per gallon of mash, just be sure to add it after the mash has cooled or you will destroy the enzymes

A classic Bourbon recipe would be 80% corn and 20% barley. You could also use 80% corn, 12% barley and 8% rye. This is the type of schedule and recipe that commercial Bourbon distilleries use. For the recipes below keep your OG between 1.060 and 1.070, it your OG is above 1.070 then add a little water to help bring it down

First mash
10.75 lbs flaked corn
2.5 lbs 6-row
6 gallons of water
Whiskey yeast with AG
mash at 150F for 90 minutes
stir every 15 minutes
if the mash gets below 145F then re heat it but be sure to stir the grains on the bottom so they don't scorch
cool with a wort chiller or let it cool overnight
once cool pitch yeast and ferment around 80F
once it has finished do a beer stripping run (no cuts) and keep the backset and low wines
throw away spent grains and yeast, you don't need to keep them for THIS recipe

Second mash
10.75 lbs flaked corn
2.5 lbs 6-row
4.5 gallons of water
1.5 gallons of backset from first mash
1 tablespoon 2-row or 6-row barley (this will add the lactobacillus to help make it a sour mash)
Whiskey yeast with AG
mash at 150F for 90 minutes
stir every 15 minutes
if the mash gets below 145F then re heat it but be sure to stir the grains on the bottom so they don't scorch
cool with a wort chiller or let it cool overnight
once cool pitch yeast and sprinkle 1 tablespoon of 2-row or 6-row barley over mash and ferment around 80F
once it has finished fermenting perform a beer stripping run (no cuts) and keep the backset and low wines


on both beer stripping runs collect distillate until the TOTAL volume of distillate is at 20% ABV
take the low wines from both runs and distill making cuts
you now have a sour mash Bourbon (except it needs to be aged)

for all future runs just use the same recipe as the second mash except once you perform the beer stripping run you can then perform your second distillation with cuts, or you can collect low wines from multiple batches and then perform a distillation on those

you can also substitute 2-row for 6-row barley in all of the recipes but 6-row is preferred because it has a higher diastatic power (simply put it will make the mash more effective and help convert more of the sugars in the corn)

If you want to use rye or wheat you can also substitute these grain bills for the grain bills above

10.75 lbs flaked corn
1.5 lbs 6-row
1 lb flaked rye or flaked wheat

when you go to your local homebrew shop don't mill the flaked grains, it's not necessary and isn't good for the mill, and it will piss off the owner and employees

[Bull Rider]

Thank You Cornwhiskey!

I've cut and pasted your post into my workbook. I appreciate your time in posting this information. Can I use a UJSM backset in these recipes?

Again, thanks...

[cornwhiskey]

Thank You Cornwhiskey!

I've cut and pasted your post into my workbook. I appreciate your time in posting this information. Can I use a UJSM backset in these recipes?

Again, thanks...

Sure. If you already have some backset then you can just start off with the second mash I listed.

Some people may not want to add the lactobacillus by adding the tablepoon of 2-row or 6-row into the mash. You can purchase cultures of lactobacillus delbruekii from Wyeast (#5335) and White labs WLP677. The tablespoon of barley is a lot cheaper though.

[W.S.C.beachman]

Ok so I went down to my candy shop(local brew shop) and bought
2lbs Bisquit barley...they thought was 2 row...Has a toasty smell and taste!!!
2lbs Malted Rye
1lb Flaked Oats.
I have a batch of UJSSM running that I have been using 5.5lbs..ish of cracked corn, 16 cups sugar, 2 gallons backset, 2 gallons fresh water, 1Tbls Epsom. Its ben working great!!
Now I plan on adding 1lb of the Bisquit, 1/2lb Rye and 1lb Oats.
This gives me a total weight of 8lbs and my Grain bill will stand as this:
1lb of 8lbs=12.5% Barley
1lb of 8lbs=12.5% Oats
.5lb of 8lb=6.25% Rye
5.5lbs of 8lbs=68.75% Cracked Corn
So after I do my strip run tomorrow ill add in every thing but the corn obviously. Now they say that after at least 4 runs of the corn is when the flavor really starts to come out, does this mean that I have to do a good four runs before the Oats,Rye and Barley start to get flavor going?
Will the Oats turn to mush and cause me to change all the grains after each run though? I don't want to do that...It does take a good couple batches to get the flavor from the corn and I am there now I don't want to start over with fresh corn every time I do a strip run...

[olddog]

I run with all of my grains in at the same time, and just scoop of the white stuff and replace with more grain mix.

[Maynard]

Well I am very glad I have started this thread.
Stripped #6 gen straight UJSM last night and instead of adding more corn, added 1lb each of rye and 2 row barley. Most of which was added in a grain bag. Not sure how that is going to work.....
its floating which i don't like.
Now, I pinch a very little bit of yeast and add a bit of neutrients to each of my rounds. But this one is seriously bubbling like a good gerber wash.
We shall see, try and update this thread as we continue.
Thanks

[W.S.C.beachman]

Im gona through in the grain and fresh corn in the boiler with a couple gallons of water and boil for 20 min to soften up the grains. I am hopping that this will get me to the point for flavor that maybe 3-4 washes might get me. Still using sugar for my alch. I am not trying to convert grains to starch or any thing like that. Think it will work??

[GrayGull]

Thanks cornwhisky. A recipe that I shall try out soon.
You say that this recipe is similar to that used by the commercial Bourbon distilleries. But many corn whisky (Bourbon) recipes on this forum require that the corn be cooked for 30-90 minutes at a simmer to release the starches, then cooled to 155F (66C) before the addition of malt.
Is this a worthwhile effort? Do you, and other forum contributors, consider that cooking corn is an essential for Bourbon?

[Dnderhead]

Graygul, you have sugar recipe,(non cooked) mixed up with "all grain"(cooked)