cutting out the forshots

[rise n shine]

howdy all, let me start out by saying this is an awsome site, and everyone here seems great!!

I am a noobie, but, have a mr. disstiller (table top) for just over a year with tubo's for wash (soon to change when the yeast is used up!!). I have been reading and learning for months now,and am ready for the next step up, but am unclear on a few points as far as forshots.
my questions are:

running a propane burner using a 54" packed (with s/s pot scrubers) collum "boc" (reflux mode), and a 14" non-packed "boc" collum,(maybe a little too tall for pot still/strip mode?, but fits the liebig mount better).

1) when running in pot still mode,(not stripping), do you take off forshots every run (if dissiling more than once)?

2) do you still take off forshots during a "stripping" run for nutral spirits (or just when you make your final run through reflux)

3) if you have a screw up on a run, and decide to re-run it, do you take off and throw away the for shots again? (assuming the screw up didn't happen while taking off the forshots in the fist place).

i'm assuming once the meth is gone, it's gone, but i just want to be sure.

thanks in advance,
rise n shine

[trthskr4]

First off, welcome.
Second, first appearances are often deceiving.

14" is fine, some have much taller ones.

It's best to take some foreshots EVERY time you reheat the wash or strip. You have to understand that some volatile compounds are always present (maybe just less concentrated) in every alcoholic beverage. All we can do is to concentrate and re-concentrate them into a point where we can remove some of them. Remember that after fores comes heads which you don't want to drink either so what does it hurt to take off 250 ml. or 8 oz. per 5 gallons or so of liquid every time you heat up the still. Commercial distilleries make no distinction between heads and fores, at least from the terminology that they use in what I've seen and read.

Methanol is not what you should be concerned about. It's the other esters and compounds that are the biggest problem.

[rise n shine]

thanks trth, that clears things up a bunch

[trthskr4]

No problem.

[HookLine]

It's best to take some foreshots EVERY time you reheat the wash or strip.

Many, including me, do not make a fores cut on every run. I only make them on the final spirit run. Don't see any advantage in making them on the low wines (stripping) run.

[still crazy]

Wouldn't you want to take out the foreshots on the first run in multiple runs?
As I am understanding the "science" of distilling a bit more every day. What I am reading is that as the distilate vapor starts, low temp. The first vapors condesing would be meth and foreshot. So wouldn't it be prudent to dispose of this ASAP ?
My history is from watching someone else still and he had a system to seperate, what I am learning are "cuts" that I have seen nobody else using. It was a series of sealed jars with atmospheric loops and vent tubes that would fill to a preset limit then allow the fluid to pass to the next jar and so on. When I build it I will be posting pics and explaining further.

[HookLine]

Wouldn't you want to take out the foreshots on the first run in multiple runs?
As I am understanding the "science" of distilling a bit more every day. What I am reading is that as the distilate vapor starts, low temp. The first vapors condesing would be meth and foreshot. So wouldn't it be prudent to dispose of this ASAP ?

Not necessarily. The optimal time to take them out when you are getting the best separation, which is during the slowest (ie lowest power) run of the process, and that is the final spirit run. That is when you get the cleanest cut, and the least waste.

[trthskr4]

Hook, you run a column for your spirit runs don't you? Or do you do flavored spirits on a potstill?

[trthskr4]

Not to get into a pissing contest with Hook, but I have to say this...I speak from running a pot still only. Pot stills don't concentrate very well, so therefore, there will be lower concentrations of everything in the wash in the output of the still. Even after running through 3 times there will still be some trace amounts of the more volatile compounds. Now, I'm a simple minded person so it seems to me that given the facts of a potstill, and the science as I understand it, it would be optimal to remove as much of these compounds as you can at every given opportunity.

A reflux still, such as a vm, will concentrate till the cows come home as long as you don't flood it nor open the gate valve. So therefore Hooks suggested method would be a comfortable one for me if I were running a VM. It just doesn't sit well with me for a pot, not that I know for a scientific fact that it's wrong, I'm just not comfortable with it in my mind. Besides, again I say that the next thing to come after fores is heads and you don't want to be drinking those either so what does it hurt to do a fores cut on every run? You're pulling off 100-250ml per 5 gallons of wash each time so if you're running something flavored through twice then your losing a grand total of a pint or so on those two runs.

Playing devils advocate on the same token of heads coming after fores, you're not drinking the heads anyway so if fores continue to come through in the early heads they'll be tossed anyway. Ahhh, but, lots of folks collect their heads and tails and do a heads/tails run later so again their increasing the concentration of fores by adding those late fores into that mix.

The beauty of craft distilling is that each distiller can do what he likes to get the outcome that he likes and is comfortable with safety and skill wise. I do a fores collection on every run regardless of the type. Granted I'm not getting the best concentration on the stripping runs, but concentration none-the-less. The first part of every run is going to give you some collection of fluids at lower than normal collection temps. If you're getting output at a head temp of 140-150*F then it's it's not the hearts of the run coming out. If you're comfortable only doing a fores collection on the spirit run then that's fine, it's your choice and no one's gonna smack ya for it.

But don't rerun an all hearts run to fix screw ups and not take another fores cut. Cause your first collection vessel ain't gonna be all hearts.