MAPP?

[Thorn_veritas]

hey guy wondering if a mapp torch would be alright for 2" copper????

[Slow & Steady]

Are you using low temp Silver Solder 5-8 % silver or are you using high temp 50% silver and up? Although MAPP is a lot hotter than Propane and will do a good job on the low temp silver solder, you are going to have much more success with High Temp Silver Solder or Silver Brazing-rod using an acetylene torch.

S&S

[Coyote]

Mapp will work just fine for you even propane will do the job on 2"
no matter what you use heat slowly and evenly
Don't get in a rush and you will do fine

[still crazy]

Thorn
+1 on cyote
If you want to insure your solder on 2" and bigger joints get a lil hammer, small ball peen or a tack hammer and "tickle" your joint with that while the solders still "wet".

[blanikdog]

Thorn
+1 on cyote
If you want to insure your solder on 2" and bigger joints get a lil hammer, small ball peen or a tack hammer and "tickle" your joint with that while the solders still "wet".

What a bloody good idea. Maybe I'll have a go at fixing the leak in my tapered section of my 'goose neck' but flour paste works so well that I'm a little loath to try soldering it. My soldering skills are shit!!

[rubber duck]

Thorn
+1 on cyote
If you want to insure your solder on 2" and bigger joints get a lil hammer, small ball peen or a tack hammer and "tickle" your joint with that while the solders still "wet".

Doesn't vibrating the pipes while still hot/ wet cause the solder to honeycomb, in turn making a weak joint? I'm not a plumper but I was told by one not to vibrate or cool down to fast or it will mess up the joint.

lots of plumbers hear maybe one of them can confirm or debunk what I've been told.

Edit. I prefer map gas.

[Dnderhead]

yep,, my honey comb used to vibrate
do not move once soldered, do not cool. you can wipe off excess if you want but do not move the joint.

[blanikdog]

hmmmmm OK. I'll stick with my proven flour paste. I didn't want to go near the soldering again anyway.

blanik

[Thorn_veritas]

thanks guys i wont "tickle " it but i might try the propane first and if that dont work i will go map thanks all

[olddog]

I have managed to build all of my stills using propane, but it can be a bit difficult when you get a large mass of copper.

[ozone39]

you can quench a silver soldered joint and not affect the strength, in return the black oxides that builds up will come right off. If you wait then your using sand cloth and elbow grease to get that shit off.

[Slow & Steady]

I quench high temp silver solder but not the low temp silver solder. The low temp silver solder behaves differently from the high temp stuff.

S&S

[rubber duck]

Quench = dunking in water correct?

So high content silver solder is ok to cool fast/ quench, but low content 4- 8% should be cooled slowly. Have I got this right?

[Slow & Steady]

Quench = dunking in water correct?

So high content silver solder is ok to cool fast/ quench, but low content 4- 8% should be cooled slowly. Have I got this right?

Yes, Quench = Dunking or spritzing with water. The thing with high temp is that it sets up very quickly as the temp falls below the melting point very quickly... most times as soon as you withdraw the flame. The low temp silver solder can remain liquid from residual heat longer after the flame has been withdrawn, and movement during the hardening of the solder can ruin the integrity of the joint.

S&S

[still crazy]

Tickling joints was taught to me by a plumber who was 80, he learned it as an 18 year old apprentice and died 30 years ago.
I'm 50 so I guess its an OLD trick.
I teach this to all my sprinkler fitter classes as we usually solder a lot of copper in exposed retrofit systems in restaurants.
If you quick quench a heated copper joint its fine but if you do it on a bent cup of a fitting you remove the annealing and will harden the bent end so you can't slip
the joints together.

Another trick you can use. Is say your using 2" with teflon tape to slip-into a 2" fitting but the fittings so tight it strips your tape off. You can anneal the copper "cup" by heating it red hot and letting it air cool this will make the copper soft and you can form a flared lip which will accept your tape better.

Oh and BTW MAPP is all we use in sprinkler.

[ozone39]

Are you talking about a still application on the Teflon tape trick??? I've never heard of doing this out side of doing this on a couple joints on my still.

[Slow & Steady]

Are you talking about a still application on the Teflon tape trick??? I've never heard of doing this out side of doing this on a couple joints on my still.

There hasen't been any mention of Teflon tape. Up to now, we have been discussing the merits of differing flame temperatures and soldering techniques on silver solders of varing percentages of silver purity.

S&S

[ozone39]

Still crazy's second paragraph, maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Another trick you can use. Is say your using 2" with teflon tape to slip-into a 2" fitting but the fittings so tight it strips your tape off. You can anneal the copper "cup" by heating it red hot and letting it air cool this will make the copper soft and you can form a flared lip which will accept your tape better.

[Slow & Steady]

Dang... there it is... you were right Ozone. Shame on me for missing that. You were also correct in your reference to the black oxides cleaning away easier with Quenching.

S&S

[still crazy]

Still crazy's second paragraph, maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Another trick you can use. Is say your using 2" with teflon tape to slip-into a 2" fitting but the fittings so tight it strips your tape off. You can anneal the copper "cup" by heating it red hot and letting it air cool this will make the copper soft and you can form a flared lip which will accept your tape better.

I had a problem in that my coupling was so tight on my pipe that it stripped my teflon off when I tried to meet the pipe into the fitting.
What I did was mount my 2" column in my Ridgid 300 and while it spun I put the turbo torch to the edge of the coupling heating it red hot got it to anneal(soften).
Then I eased a flare onto the fitting now its an accepting female end. When i tape it now it leaves a little recess to press caulk the teflon into.
Then i reheated and quenched it to harden the cups and remove the oxide. Final cleaning was with tarn-x,by wifey poo.

[ozone39]

I have a couple of these joints on my gin still. I found that beveling the fittings with my de-burring tool also helps the tape get started into these joints...