Questions on Building a 2" VM Still in SS, thoughts about de

[kiwistiller]

MOD EDIT This was split from original topic to cover two separate points of discussion http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=11546 How big is your heads reservoir? What is the charge, mash or low wines?

scary looking o-rings, but a good idea. might try the same with teflon.

[vman]

Viton o-rings offers no problem at all

Heads reservoir is a bit oversized at 5 dl. Figured i would rather have it a little oversized, than undersized.

usually run with low wines, treated with KMnO4

[kiwistiller]

5dl = 500ml, right? How much low wines at 40% are you putting in the boiler? I'm actually designing my own reservoir on the other screen right now, thanks for the answers.
RE Viton, got an MSDS on it? The one from dupont didn't say anything about ethanol... it's your own risk though, so suit yourself!

[LWTCS]

Man that thing looks bloody clean from here.

[vman]

Man that thing looks bloody clean from here.

Thanks man

http://www.fbs-online.com/Centre/Prod/V ... om-res.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here are some links for those nervous about Viton o-ring seals

5dl = 500ml, right? How much low wines at 40% are you putting in the boiler? I'm actually designing my own reservoir on the other screen right now, thanks for the answers.
RE Viton, got an MSDS on it? The one from dupont didn't say anything about ethanol... it's your own risk though, so suit yourself!

Jup Putting low wines from 50l of mash.

Ahh, cool man Good luck!

[Tater]

Didn't see in links you provided where it was any good for distilling use . did notice this--DANGER! WARNING!
Variations in chemical behavior during
handling due to factors such as
temperature, pressure, and concentration
can cause equipment to fail,
even though it passed an initial test.
SERIOUS INJURY MAY RESULT
Use suitable guards and/or personal
protection when handling chemicals The information in this chart has been
supplied to Cole-Parmer by other
reputable sources and is to be
used ONLY as a guide in selecting
equipment for appropriate
chemical compatibility.
Before permanent installation,
test the equipment with the chemicals
and under the specific conditions of
your application.

Ratings of chemical behavior listed
in this chart apply to a 48-hr exposure period;
Cole-Parmer has no knowledge of possible
effects beyond this period.
Cole Parmer does not warrant
(neither express or implied)
that the information in this chart is
accurate or complete or that
any material is suitable for any purpose.

[Whitedog]

Thorough research is required....

Please read this.... WD

http://www.pspglobal.com/viton-selecting.html

[vman]

Tests7,8 show that Viton® has:

1. Excellent compatibility with fresh and contaminated biodiesel, and with ethanol.

2. High resistance to permeation and chemical attack by alcohol, pure ethanol and blends of ethanol with hydrocarbon fuel (see Figures 2,3 and 4).

3. Long-term retention of critical properties in current and emerging biofuels.

4. Outstanding low temperature (-50°C to -65°C) static sealing performance in biofuels, (also at elevated temperatures).

[Whitedog]

All tests were performed at 23* C.... My still runs much hotter....

[Tater]

Tests7,8 show that Viton® has:

1. Excellent compatibility with fresh and contaminated biodiesel, and with ethanol.

2. High resistance to permeation and chemical attack by alcohol, pure ethanol and blends of ethanol with hydrocarbon fuel (see Figures 2,3 and 4).

3. Long-term retention of critical properties in current and emerging biofuels.

4. Outstanding low temperature (-50°C to -65°C) static sealing performance in biofuels, (also at elevated temperatures).

This still doesn't tell how it does with alcohol distilled for drinking .

[kiwistiller]

maybe a mod could copy the posts about vitron to the materials safety forum and we could continue this there?? don't want to have the whole thread end up locked or something, it's a good build.

[kiwistiller]

I note this on wiki -

Viton is generally compatible with hydrocarbons, but incompatible with ketones such as acetone, and organic acids such as acetic acid.

acetone is a normal component in heads isn't it? it's not just ethanol we need to be concerned with. there is also (from parent site):
* Acetone 56.5C (134F)
* Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)
* Ethyl acetate 77.1C (171F)
* Ethanol 78C (172F)
* 2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)
* 1-Propanol 97C (207F)
* Butanol 116C (241F)
* Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)
* Furfural 161C (322F)

all coming off in various azeotropic mixtures... and that's not an exhaustive list. I'd tread carefully with it... You could email dupont and ask about suitability in high temp alcohols etc I guess. they give this link for it: http://www.dupontelastomers.com/contact ... tactus.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[kiwistiller]

this is an interesting read as well:
http://www.zrunek.at/viton-fkm-fpm-fluo ... tomers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[HookLine]

Any material used inside a still must be compatible with a whole bunch of compounds (including ethanol, acetone, ethyl acetate, propanols, etc), at high temps (roughly 65-100ºC), and for long periods (at least hundreds of hours).

This is why it is so hard to find good materials.

[blanikdog]

Am I the only one who gets sick and tired of reading this same debate over and over and over again for years and years and years, and always coming to the same conclusion that the etho we make is for drinking and NOT for fuel? The same old specs but never a mention of human consumption. <sigh>

blanik

[vman]

I'm not going to participate further in this discussion, as i feel i have nothing more to add really.

i think it`s totally safe, and that is my opinion. Still alive, healthy and in good shape

But would have been cool if anyone could put some good proof on the table for not using it,
and eventually something else to use?

Not to be grumpy, but:

Do you really have documentation on the PTFE tape you use? Or your gaskets for column connections? Testet at high temps, with alc?
All i know is you could try eating a little bit of teflon, and see how you feel afterwards (not good)

Hey, while we are at it, put up some documentation for brass, 316, 304 copper, and for seals in the different valves we use.
All tests must have been done at high temps offcourse, and with all the heads chemicals, no matter how little consentration.

Good luck lads!

[Whitedog]

Do what you want.... the whole point of the matter was and is, one should not make bold statements that a particular material is known to be good in a given service without proper documentation. This is especially important regarding the material in this discussion since there are five different families of Viton with no way to visibly distinguish between them. The reports that were given show some of these Viton families as "not recommended". I personally would not want to be responsible for giving someone false information that causes him/her to poison themselves or a group of unsuspecting people/family... It's about responsibility, not as you put it "being grumpy"...WD

[kiwistiller]

we've got mass spec results on the teflon, I'll trust that over a vaguely worded manufacturers document any day. just my 2c, didn't mean to get your feathers ruffled.