manuka sustitute for oak?

[dj da kiwi]

Hi all!
have been improving my brews with every run thanks to all the great advice here.
Im in the process of playing around with flavouring my neutral.
I love bourbon most of all.Have just tried the SS top shelf bourbon, which the brewshop fulla recommended me.I was pretty stoked
with the resulting flavour.I have 2 litres of neutral sitting in bourbon chunks at the mo which has taken on a nice colour,i cant wait to try it.
I really want to try different oaks but have been looking around for any oak substitute.After going thru many threads im thinking manuka really
sounds like it could give some nice (albeit strong?) flavours.
Can anyone out there in nz give me any alternatives to oak? I have access to many natives, how do these turn out?
Natural, light toast,dark toast , or charred?
Also what percentage should my neutral be for soaking?

Any "best bourbon flavouring recipes/combinations"?

chur chur

dj

[gavin]

Hi all!
have been improving my brews with every run thanks to all the great advice here.
Im in the process of playing around with flavouring my neutral.
I love bourbon most of all.Have just tried the SS top shelf bourbon, which the brewshop fulla recommended me.I was pretty stoked
with the resulting flavour.I have 2 litres of neutral sitting in bourbon chunks at the mo which has taken on a nice colour,i cant wait to try it.
I really want to try different oaks but have been looking around for any oak substitute.After going thru many threads im thinking manuka really
sounds like it could give some nice (albeit strong?) flavours.
Can anyone out there in nz give me any alternatives to oak? I have access to many natives, how do these turn out?
Natural, light toast,dark toast , or charred?
Also what percentage should my neutral be for soaking?

Any "best bourbon flavouring recipes/combinations"?

chur chur

dj

Hi DJ,

I see you live in PNorth, so do I.

Not sure about the manuka, but this may be of interest if you are looking at manuka because you can't find American white oak:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Building-renov ... 743430.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

if you would like to split an order let me know as I would also been very keen to try for a bourbon once I've got a good neutral sorted.

I also have some seasoned apricot timber here if you would like a crack at that


cheers

gavin

[dj da kiwi]

Hi Gavin, awesome to meet another Palmerstonian here!
Yes that american white oak looks awesome, i wonder what the price to ship it here from Christchurch would be?
Theres this oak firewood here in Palmy :http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/He ... 774739.htm ,
but its due to close, i wonder if this would suffice? Dunno its species tho...
Was just looking at your experiences with birdwatchers sugar wash,be good to chat at some stage,as youre a bit more
advanced in the game than i am Cos im a turbo noob at mo (lol,i need more fermenters coz i drink it as fast as i make it )
But yeh, id be happy to work together towards a solution that will be mutually beneficial in the financial respect.
The more reading im doing , the more im thinking oak may be best solution, just the matter of sourcing it..
That apricot timber sounds very interesting, i wonder what a good potential application for that might be... hmmm...
Thats got me wondering too ... lol
Anyway ,youre more than welcome to add me as a friend,pm or email!
cheers heaps for your help
dj

[hoody]

Dont mean to chime in on this, but you guy's might want to go half's in a half wine barrel?? Prob be the cheapest and easiest way around sourcing american oak??

Also dj,I seriously urge you to give a birdwatcher's a crack. Seriously easy and alot of benefit.

Hoody

[dj da kiwi]

hi hoody
hey no worries ,i appreciate all input very much.
Yes i was looking at barrells on trademe as well, also thinking of their cost efficiency.A few local as well which helps.
Are all wine barrells American oak?? Or oak in general??
Yes i am hanging to get into birdwatchers and wineos washes, i have all the ingredients for winoes.Ive only just acquired a second fermenter so havent wanted to tie
my only fermenting barrel down lol.
But im really looking forward to doing it without dirty old turbos.I found the advice here regarding "If you absolutely HAVE to use turbos..."
very,very helpful, but yes, i want to move away from them for sure.
Cheers for your input bro
dj

[gavin]

Good thoughts regarding the wine barrells hoody. Certainly seems like you would get more wood for your money this way

For burbon though, does it matter that the timber will be wine soaked and many of them seem to be french oak rather than American white?


Yeah hey dj!

More than happy to catch up at some stage although I'm not sure I would be calling myself more advanced, all I'm feeling at this stage is rather frustrated lol.

Would definatly be a help to be able to pool resources and experiances though!

regards

gavin

[kiwistiller]

Hey guys, couple of things:
Most (all I've seen anyway) wine barrels are french oak. I get good results from mine - it's ex pinot noir. A barrel goes a long way! you can pick em up really cheap in summer.

I've tried using manuka for a few things (you could probably find some by searching - yup just checked, have a search). In summary, for aging, I found it too strong. For a NZ twist on the lincon country process, however, it works really, really well. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_County_Process" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow )

as for 'what % should my neutral be for soaking', well if you want bourbon, you'll need to start with UJSM at least (all grain would of course be better, but that isn't practical for everyone). just start up an UJSM in a fermenter. It'll be piling up in no time, and after a while on oak it'll impress most people.

Cheers, kiwi

[gavin]

Very informative!

thanks kiwi

[hoody]

Another option for oak is to hit up a local cabinet maker. I got HEAP'S of "off cut's from a friend of mine, all un treated american oak. Most of it was just sitting in the scrap bin.


Hoody

[dj da kiwi]

Very informative indeed, thank you gentlemen.
Hoody,youve motivated me to get in contact with a few local cabinetmakers.If i have any success i will let you know Gavin/put some aside for you!
Kiwistiller, im going to have a crack at that Lincoln County process.It looks relatively simple,and i sure do love the jack.
Very interesting that Jack Daniels is a Tennessee whiskey,not a bourbon.I also find it interesting that to fit the definition/criteria of being a "bourbon",the abv cant be less than 40%.
Where does that leave our Jim Beam now?? It used to be 40% but now is 37%.... Im presuming its a taxation thing? Technically Not bourbon then? lol
Should i just char the manuka kiwi? Or should i mix some toasted thru as well? (I cant wait to experiment but im curious as to what process you found most to your liking)
Do i just let it wash thru, or should i let it sit briefly in the spirit? slow or fast flowrate?
What containment device did u utilise? A length of pipe? (stainless/copper?how long?)
Hope none of my questions are too stupid lol,i do endeavor to find out as much as i can before asking,but sometimes i miss the important bits.So much info to filter through..
Hope everyones week is goin mint so far
Cheers guys,
dj

[kiwistiller]

Not just charred, I turn it to charcoal and grind it up. Then I just use a coffee filter in a glass funnel.

[dj da kiwi]

magic kiwi, thank you.
Ive just sourced a bottle of George Dickel , the "barrel select" whisky of theirs, at our local liquorland,$210 for 750ml!!
Im goin to save up an purchase as its very hard to get in NZ.Just to get an idea of "the best" (or thereabouts) Tennessee whiskey.
Crazy price,but for a product aged 10-12 years, i think i can justify that.
The bourbon oak chips worked a treat, i was rapt with the resulting liquor considering they had an all to brief soak.I re used and added a bit of essence.
Will try the Lincoln County process with manuka in the next day or so.
Damn i love this hobby !!

[kiwistiller]

... you'll probably have to be starting with something 'whisky-ish' to get a good result. I did it to great effect with oaked DWWG.