What would make a good purchased still?

[kiwistiller]

Gidday guys - A few people I've bumped into are batting around the idea of manufacturing stills for the NZ market (and maybe overseas, later down the line), basically aiming to provide a more serious alternative to the essencia, still spirits, et al offerings for those that want to move away from the essences process. What would be the key attributes and desired designs in your minds? Here is what I'm thinking:
Ideal designs -
2" boka column - most cost-effective design out there for a column
2" pot still w liebig (would like a worm, but material costs are higher then)

Key attributes:
Safety (materials, ss, cu and PTFE)
attaches with triclamp to a keg boiler (available, modular)
NOT CM
At least price parity with brew shop offerings (after keg, burner, etc is added in), hopefully cheaper.
Sell both units together at a discount for that full set of tools feeling


What else do you see as essential or desirable for a purchased still? Those of you that purchased stills, what was bad / good about what you got and what would you improve? What sort of information offering would you expect with it?

Penny for your thoughts,
Kiwi

[lacedspirits]

I think you could corner the market with a boka/vm combo still at a reasonable price. I really like manus' condenser control still. No gimicks, just a decent products at a decent price.
ls

[rubber duck]

I think you have the right idea as far as the still goes Kiwi.

Here's the problem I see, it seem to me that a majority of folks buying their fist still don't know their asshole from a hole in the ground. How are you going to convince a total novice that your still is better when you don't even get the pot with your still? I know it's better, you know it's better, but the new consumer doesn't. So what's your marketing strategy?

I think your target should be the new distiller and this is why. A guy that want's to move up from a air still is going to, but in all likely hood he will have gained the knowledge to build his own boka.

These package deals are popular because folks don't know better, there affordable, and it's all there in one box.

[SingaporeSling]

Hi Kiwi,

You could market it to guys like me, who would love to get their hands on a Boka, but don't want to 1) Source all the copper and other bits required themselves 2) Spend time tinkering and learning to soilder if they can get away with it.

I sometimes wish there was just ONE stop shop you can go to and just pick up the bits you need. keg, 2" copper tubing, couplers, tri clamps etc. Everything you need to even start building your own Boka.

Rubber Duck is correct, a novice would be happy with a complete solution, as I was, and now that I can see the limitations in the T500 still I bought, I would love to make (or buy my own) boka.

Another thing is safety, whatever you sell has to be idiot friendly and forgiving. Recently a friend of mine asked to borrow my still, I actaully told him that I didn't think he would be serious enough about the dangers of operating it and told him No!

Just my 2c

Sling

[Kentucky shinner]

I'll sell you a bok ole bud...

[davidwh]

Hello kiwi,

You ask an intresting question or two there.

K so 4 me its simple. Ask what most want to drink it would generally fall in to 2 groups, neutrals and rums/bourbons/friut/gins.

Why not a a shared column with a joiner and a boka head with a optional or included pot head. Order together, seperately. It avoids forcing the purchaser to make a choice and provides max flexablity. If they don't know shit sell em both keeps unit sale value up.

2" copper with tri clamp they supply the keg(freight impact?) or you supply the keg if local.

In terms of marketing it's allow about max flexablity and quality of product.

cheers
dave

[Ayay]

Have a good lawyer.
Get a license to use the 'Boka' name (if needed).
Promote it vigorously, and vigorously dispell the current brewshop wild claims in a factual manner. (They may be your outlets in the future).
You have all the info for natural recipes, good brewin, how to run the Boka, make cuts, airing & ageing...just write it out concisely in your own words; copywrite it and persue any/all violaters. Tie into HD, refer your customers here and I'm sure they will be honoured guests.
Businesswise the paperwork is more important than top-quality fabricating...yeah definately find a good lawyer!

[ammo man]

kiwi, you or whoever is going to do this better, and I stress better pay attention to what Ayay said.

Also, what rubber duck said is true. A beginner does not know which hole is which. You could sell him anything, but if this is going to be a long term venture, design a good product with the features that are important, and I know from following your post that you know this, and go for it.

Bert

[kiwistiller]

Cheers for the ideas / comments guys. I don't think I'd use bokakob's name, I'm not sure if he is still active in any of the communities (I haven't seen him round yahoo groups or anything) but I imagine it would be a touch disrespectful for me to use his handle - dual slant plate will do, although I imagine that will have to be a 'subheading', sort of name as the average noob won't have a clue about that.

Why not a a shared column with a joiner and a boka head with a optional or included pot head. Order together, seperately. It avoids forcing the purchaser to make a choice and provides max flexablity. If they don't know shit sell em both keeps unit sale value up.

Think for the price of a foot of column and the hassle of changing out packing, it would be easier to just sell as different units to strap onto the same boiler. Flexibility is key though.

I'll sell you a bok ole bud...

Oh, turn it up

You could market it to guys like me, who would love to get their hands on a Boka, but don't want to 1) Source all the copper and other bits required themselves 2) Spend time tinkering and learning to soilder if they can get away with it.

I think that's really the target - those more interested in making good spirits than making their own stills. The NZ market for people that just want cheap piss is covered - that's what the brew shops do. carbon, essences, they've got it sorted. Any target would have to be more towards those wanting a nice piece of copper in the garage to experiment and create with - foodies. Another market is the people moving up and on from beer and wine brewing - healthy online communities that provide direct access to those folks.

I think you could corner the market with a boka/vm combo still at a reasonable price.

Maybe, cost would be getting up a little bit for a combo still - valves and fittings are where the main costs will be. Could maybe offer them later as custom jobs.

Hopefully as a biproduct this sort of venture would be able to help out DIYers with componentry as well. I know for one thing needle valves, triclamps and 2" copper are bloody hard to find in this country.

[marc83]

I for one would be interested in purchasing something along those lines.definately target market would be someone wanting to move on from store bought stills etc.Like you said the people who only want to produce cheap piss are well sorted with brewshop stuff,but for those genuinely interested in upgrading their rigs but not wanting to source parts and build one themselves,your on the money kiwi!
What sort of figures would one sell for?

[kiwistiller]

Haven't run the pricing yet, would like for people to be set up with a nice still + keg + burner & reg for similar prices to a brewshop setup. Cheaper than that would be awesome (like the price a brew shop still will go for second hand ), but like I said, haven't run the numbers because haven't settled on a product at this point.

[marc83]

Even just the still and keg would be a great buy.A burner etc can be picked up easy enough i guess.

[kiwistiller]

yeah, kegs are a problem to ship - locally it could probably be facilitated, though. burners are cheap as chips at bunnings & regs are cheap at the BBQ factory.

[kiwistiller]

wouldn't have thought it was proven enough to go to market? besides, manu makes them, wouldn't want to cut his lunch

[Kentucky shinner]

I think your on the right track Kiwi for a couple of reasons. 1. a Bok is about as easy to run as a pot still. 2. easy for you to build.3 many folks I am sure would love to have one but dont have the resouces to build there own. Like you said you could offer it as a complete package and they would be ready to go. believe it or not I had really thought about doing this here in the states. If I buy my copper in a 20' stick I can get a pretty good price, and I have found out if I buy my fittings in bulk I can also get them at a pretty good price. The great thing about thest two builds is you dont need many fittings. The only reason I have not gone ahead with it is I was afraid of the attention it may attract from the wrong folks...JOHNNY LAW. I have went as far as looking into getting a guy I know to stamp out the plates for a 2" bok for me on his press. Hell you put one of these together pretty quick with all the parts ready.
I think your on the right track.
KS

[LWTCS]

Good jig and a band saw and you wouldn't even have to take out a tape measure. All the labor would be really be in the coil.

[Kentucky shinner]

Your right Larry. I had thought about making a jig out of stainless that you could slide the copper in and just run your saw through the slits you have cut in the stainless. It would really be easy to get set up the crank these babies out.

[Kentucky shinner]

If I ever build one of these plate stills that I am building now for someone, It wont be cheap. Lots of work and materials.
KS

[Samohon]

I made a mitre box type jig with 30deg saw rifts to cut the slots, but KS's stainless tube sounds more long term...