New Take on a Great Design... ODs Magic Flute - Mark 2...

[olddog]

I hard solder the shell together along with the end plates, then soft solder the tubes into the assembly.

OD

[Prairiepiss]

I hard solder the shell together along with the end plates, then soft solder the tubes into the assembly.
OD

Thanks OD Do you put one or two tubes in to line her up? oooo This wont work for me on this shotgun. Damnit One end plate will be about 5 inches down in the pipe. So I wont be able to get down in there to solder the tubes in after I solder the plate in. I guess I'm back to plan A.

[guittarmaster]

I hard solder the shell together along with the end plates, then soft solder the tubes into the assembly.
OD

Thanks OD Do you put one or two tubes in to line her up? oooo This wont work for me on this shotgun. Damnit One end plate will be about 5 inches down in the pipe. So I wont be able to get down in there to solder the tubes in after I solder the plate in. I guess I'm back to plan A.

How I did my delph, and how i think OD did it too is by A) soldering the end-caps to the smaller vaper flow-pipes B) hard solder the drop in shell. A&B with hard solder (comma) Then slide the pipes into the housing and soft solder it together. Granted my delph was a different model build.. but it has an easy-flange attached and has a similar soldering challenge. Like this http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p6888336. Could be wrong through, might of misread... I can see it interpreted both ways.

However even if i interoperate it wrongly you could do the above order and soft solder it into the tube any distance down into the 4"pipe the way they solder the bubble cap plate in there using a 4" ring of soft solder and applying heat from the outside.

GM

[Usge]

After screwing up 2 plates (doih), I finally got my shotgun depheg parts together. It's five 1/4" tubes...about 4" long. With room to solder, dephleg should be about 3.75" long. OD..you think that's enough ? Or should I cut longer tubes to make the water jacket part longer??

Anyway...what I ended up doing...is rough cutting 2 plates using my new Wis snips (which work great btw), then drilling both discs center and using a long bolt /washers and nut...to tighten both plates together onto the end of the bolt. I spun them both at once using my ghetto/redneck lathe (ie., the drill in a vise with a file wedged up against it). This worked well.albeit a bit slow. I would imagine..one could spin 3 or 4 plates like this at the same time, and fit them all exactly the same.

After spinning both discs to fit the tube, I left the bolt in the center...put the discs in my vise...up to the bolt...tighten the snot out of it...and drilled the holes through both discs at the same time. Had to work slow, and not foce things..to keep it from locking up on me and twisting/bending the disc. But, that worked as well. Results below:

[Samohon]

That looks great Usge... I'm not having any problems milling the parts to shape, in fact they fit damn well.. My problem lies whenI try to hard solder the casing together, you gotta get that copper glowing red hot...

I may have to use guitarmasters approach to soldering these baby's together... The plates and downcomers worked ok with a strip of hard solder... Something I did notice though, when the 4" casing has been heated to hard solder the seam, it keeps its shape and does not spring open, even with no solder in place...

I'll should have a few piccies up today, so stay tuned...

Nice work there Usge...

[blanikdog]

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, but you blokes are amazing. Keep up the great work you're all doing to keep HD the TOP home distilling forum.

Stay Safe

[olddog]

My problem lies whenI try to hard solder the casing together, you gotta get that copper glowing red hot..

Yes you have to get the copper to a red hot state before the hard solder will flow. Once you have done your side seam, fit and solder your end plates, put a couple of tubes trough to line the holes up, once lined up remove the tubes and hard solder the ends on. When you have completed this stage, just fit all of the tubes into the assembly, flux and soft solder the tubes into the end plates.


OD

[Samohon]

Thanks Blanik, theorie's one-thing, but i'm glad I've got the Guru's on this thread to talk me through it, there's so much to this build and i'm enjoying every minute...
Thanks man...

Yeah OD, the trick is not to bring the work up to heat too fast, gotta let that flux do its job and produce a cap, then make her glow and wait for the flux to go transparrent...
At least thats what i'm seeing...

Thanks man...

[olddog]

Yeah OD, the trick is not to bring the work up to heat too fast, gotta let that flux do its job and produce a cap, then make her glow and wait for the flux to go transparrent...

I don't use any flux with hard solder.


OD

[Samohon]

I'm using This... OD... The guys at Cup-Alloys told me to use a Flux Paste... with it... What brand of hard solder are you using OD and how do you heat it? Mapp/Propane...

Thanks man...

[Samohon]

Oh and here is some extra info on it...

440 Silver Solder

440 is another cadmium free alloy containing 40% silver. It conforms to BS EN 1044 AG105
Melting Range 650 - 710 °C
It is used as either the second of three or first of a two stage brazing operation.
Although it contains more silver, it offers considerable advantages in that it can be more readily melted with a propane torch and you can use the same flux as per 842. No duplication.
It is available as 1.0mm dia wire and as rod 1.5, 2.0, 2.5mm dia.

Maybe I've been duped... I'm using Mapp gass to bring it up to temps, but it does take a friggin long time...
I thought the more silver there is in solder the lower the melting temp and the less silver, the higher the melting temp... Correct?

I've successfully managed to solder the downcomer plates with this solder...
May give Larry's wet rag treatment a go...

[olddog]

Just try heating a piece of scrap copper to red hot and then apply the solder without flux.
The flux says it is for low melting point solder.


OD

[Samohon]

10/4 OD, why did'nt I think of that...

Thanks man...

[exon]

A work of art. I have decided to take the flute plunge, however I will be building out of stainless as it is considerably cheaper than copper. The plates and 'vitals' will of course be copper. One question though; can someone please patch me a link to a drawing for the plumbing for a flute. I am sure I have seen one somewhere but I just cant find the damn thing again.

Good luck!
I think it wise to construct the outer shell of the column from stainless, for the heat transfer capabilities, but feel the internal components that the vapor is in contact with should be of copper for sulfite combat... and everything in the product condenser area in order to pass heat to the atmosphere.

...just sayin...

To be sure, I know nuthin...

OD has said he works with minimal tools, and stainless requires just a bit more.

Best
exon

[Samohon]

Heres some Piccies...

Used an SS spoon as a hillbilly crucible... Dipped the ends of the vapour tubes into it a couple of times to tin them... Worked OK...

Cleaned the Top-plate, Bubbler and Vapour tube with wire wool, then a wipe with 96%abv foreshots, then fluxed, positioned, weighted and soldered, respectively...

Perfect placement, even if the camera angle looks shifty...

More to follow...

[Samohon]

Soldered the rest of the bubble-cap and vapour tubes with a higher temp solder I got from a Air Con Engineer...
I'll tell ya, its a lot easier...
Then I soldered the plate and downcomer, a little tricky to position, but I got there in the end...

Pickled the parts in a 20% solution of Hydrocloric Acid (Patio Cleaner) for an hour or so... Then took off the cap trim with a bench grinder...
Soldered the cap with vapour tube to the plate with downcomer and tried the assembly into the 4" for a fit... Like a glove...

I'll post up more tomorrow, I'm for a large UJSSM and Ginger Ale then snooze land... Really enjoying this build, even if it is a tad slow...
I'm facing each problem as it hits me and OD and you guy's are helping a lot... Cant wait until the plumbing stage...

Thanks Fellers...

[LWTCS]

WTG Sam.

Worst thing you can do is try and rush/force things........Leisure builds are therapeutic.

[Mr.Spooky]

WTG Sam.

Worst thing you can do is try and rush/force things........Leisure builds are therapeutic.

and so is that large UJSSM and Ginger Ale !!!!!!
great work Sam! good things come to those who wait!
spooky

[Samohon]

I did as OD suggested and hardsolder with out the flux and it worked great, but I had to use a acetelen torch just could not get enough heat out of mapp gas.

Yeah Rock, I tried it too and just could not get enough heat into the copper. Reckon I needed oxy/acetylene also to get the temps up there.
But I got some solder that melts at a slightly higher temp than soft lead free, from a guy that works with air-con. Told me he uses it for the same reason, when joints have to be close or nearly touching.

He gave me a great tip also, one that they use to reduce the diameter of pipes.

It requires a metal bucket, water, some rags, a propane torch and some soft lead free solder..
The idea is to place the pipe, once soldered lengthwise, into the bucket and fill to within ½" from the top with cold water...
Have not tried it, but he says it works great for small parts... Guess its something else to add to the arsenal...

Well, better get back at it...

Thanks Guy's...

[Usge]

Great work Sam! I just finished soldering up my stems to caps. I put the cap upside down on the anvil part of my vise. I stuck couple pieces of solder on the risers and wedged it in place using shim pieces of copper stuck through the skirts...then heated the whole thing till it puddled out on the bottom. Ain't purdy..but it worked.

I ran into a snag fitting my plate assembly. Evidently, the fold line was not deep enough, and it was hanging on the downcomer (I need to update my template to reflect this). I took it apart, hammered out the fold and redid it slightly deeper and that worked. It fits very, very tight.....takes some moderate tapping to get it to move. I'm still planning on soft soldering the entire thing (I like a challenge). Maybe just asking for it...but we'll see. I'm a gluten for punishment anyway.

[Samohon]

Sounds as though your winning there Usge.. After I tinned the lugs on the riser, I wanted to have a little more solder inside the cup to make sure that the vapour tube stayed in place on the big 2" cap. I made a solder ring by wrapping a length of solder around the circumference of the riser. I then cut it, placed it on the lug end, fluxed it and sat it inside the cap. It worked great and I can tell ya, its friggin strong... Today I was making sure all the internal plates were clean, cut my 4" to length and drilled the 52mm holes for the sight glasses with a Bi-Metal hole saw. I'm now ready to install the plates into the column.

Had a great tip from OD for installing the plates. Thanks again OD...

• Start with the top plate. (This lets you gain access from the base to wedge the downcomer to the pipe wall for soldering)
• Enable that the plate is 90° to the wall of the pipe and is level.
• Flux and lay a ring of solder onto the edge of the plate and column wall.
• Heat pipe from the outside so that the solder adheres to the plate and pipe.
• Gaining access from the base, wedge, flux and solder the downcomer to wall of pipe. (OD uses a bolt for a wedge)
• Remove wedge and repeat.

Should work for your 2" Usge, may have to use something long to position them and solder the plate into the 2" from the bottom. Should work fine though...

How many plates are you gonna use..?

My builds a bit slow due to the limited tools that I have, but its going in the right direction...

[olddog]

Gaining access from the base, wedge, flux and solder the downcomer to wall of pipe.

Its important to remember to flux the entire edge of the downcomer including either sides of the weir, and if you have the 4"tube at a slight incline the solder will flow the entire length of the down comer so the the weir is sealed on either side too.
When soldering the downcomer, rotate the tube so the the proposed joint will be at the bottom, this will encourage pooling around the joint, and prevent molten solder flowing away from the joint.



OD

[Mashy]

Very beautiful sill OD. Looking forward to receiving the original flute you built in the next week or so. Thanks for being so patient with me and my 1001 questions.

[Samohon]

Thanks for that OD... I can see how a slight inclination would help the solder flow with the angle of the downcomer and gravity...

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If you are the new owner of OD's original Magic Flute Mashy, then I wish you all the very best with it...
You are buying, not only a great working still, but an apparatus that has turned home distillation on its head and made our community,
not only embrace it because it looked great, but because its foundations made it a proven working design. And is IMO a piece of HD history.

Brief History of The Magic Flute:
Some members here and abroad, were a bit sceptic of a theoretical perf plate installed into a hobby still, and rightly so. The number of perforations per plate, the equilibration of a small amount of pressure within each distillation chamber, the distance between the plate and the inner wall, ect, all constituted a host of variables, that if one variable were out a few %, would cause the system to collapse. But Olddog had other plans, build it, see what it does and tweak it from there. So he did, with basic tools, a propane torch and put his money where his mouth was. The Magic Flute was born and to the amazement of the sceptics, worked. Kentucky Shinner then took the design, made an adjustment to its reflux capabilities and built a business in the US selling The Hillbilly Still. I for one thought that it couldn't get any better than that, a scaled down commercial still giving full flavour and a high abv was in the reach of the hobbyist for them that wanted to spend the cash in either building or buying a flute. But OD had other plans. Using some theory from other designs on HD and the commercial market, he then started to look at easy ways to disable the plates, the speed at which distillate travelled across the plates on their way to the boiler, all made for a system that would produce an even fuller tasting product with a control built in to achieve a barrel strength output. I just know that its on its way with this latest design. Thanks to OD and all the seasoned guru's who helped in their own way, they will all be acknowledged in the final document.

It has a proven track record in its design and its history is logical:

• From a Pot Still,
• To the Frankenstill which is a potstill with a built in thumper,
• Next came the Evil Twins, a double rectification plated column still,
• The Magic Flute, was next with its theoretical perforated plates.
• To finally The Magic Flute Mark II, with its Bubblecap, downcomer plates and plate disabling system.

So, with such an efficient design, where does it go from here..?
As most of the HD guru's have said numerously, the bells an whistles of any build, should be put in place last.

This affords two things;
1, that the current design works as expected and is producing.
2, that there is room for expansion on the design without deviating from the path too much.

Some of the add-ons I have in mind for later;

• →A flash vaporizing system at the boiler level using steam... (think ponu still)
  →A separate rectification column for high abv and clean neutral...
  →A flushing system for cleaning.
  →Ect;
  →Ect;
  →The list goes on...

Not saying that they are all feasible or will work in a design like the flute, just saying that they are worth looking at after my build is in place...
I have again picked up an old publication from +100 years ago. 'The Complete Practical Distiller', with a whole new outlook on distillation and rectification... That, combined with current designs and theory, opens up a whole new thought process, but for later...

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I wish you all the best from your new purchase Mashy.
When your ferment is dry and you charge the boiler, clamp the flute to the keg and fire up the burner, have a thought to just what this design started and where its still taking us...

Good luck to ya man...

[W.S.C.beachman]

Every morning 4:30am I check this thread to see how every ones build is going. I for one am very grateful for what is done hear. Excellent acknowledgement Somohon...well done. I woke up this morning thinking of how to build mine and finally it came to me and this week ill be picking up my materials.

[Samohon]

Every morning 4:30am I check this thread to see how every ones build is going. I for one am very grateful for what is done hear. Excellent acknowledgement Somohon...well done. I woke up this morning thinking of how to build mine and finally it came to me and this week ill be picking up my materials.

Thanks WSC...
Good luck with your build, we want loads of piccies mind...

[olddog]

You make me feel embarrassed after a posting like that Samohon.



OD

[WalkingWolf]

Here Here I say - Hip Hip Hooray

I'll drink an extra mugfull in honor of a master craftsman -- the one and only olddog

[Prairiepiss]

You make me feel embarrassed after a posting like that Samohon.
OD

You shouldn't be embarrassed. You should be proud. You have done a lot for not only the HD community but have had a big influence in many others spanning the hoby. Samohon just put into in very good words. I applaud you and your willingness to share and mentor the rest of us. If I had something good to drink I would raise a glass.

Samohon your build is coming along quite nice. Keep up the good work. And the impromptu speech was great.

[Samohon]

Credit where its due OD, its the biggest cogs that keep the small ones turning...