Condenser control still

[hackware]

hackware:

I always thought the point of Manu's design is a still that does everything from straight pot still to full reflux, is easy to run, takes the least effort to build, at the least cost, with the least number of parts (in particular to avoid needing a precision – ie expensive – valve of any kind).

since the only valve is for reflux control on the lower coil WATER, any cheap brass valve would do...

since the lower coil would be sized to create full reflux, and would terminate before the product take off port, and the product coil would start after the product take off port, no valve should be required for the take off port itself...

also, if there is enough separation between the product take off port, and the product coil, steeper angles could be used, even perhaps a "standard" 45 degree fitting...

perhaps a "Y" coil is more complex than i thought...

is it hard to size a coil to cause full reflux by itself...?

would the product coil interfere with the reflux coil during full reflux...?

would getting one extra line (reflux return with valve) past the product coil be a problem...?

my view was manu's great innovation was eliminating expensive valves in the vapor path, and also eliminating cutting and soldering plates in the column...

(luv the idea of a nice straight UNCUT column - ez to pack and unpack, ez to clean)...
(perhaps a 45 degree "Lateral-Y" would allow a bung plug (temp probe here?) for a STRAIGHT open column)...

perhaps a "T" could be the take off port, and make construction even simpler for noobs like me...

william...

[MudDuck]

BTW it seems that in the CC design (and everywhere there is a copper reflux coil) most of the condensation occurs at the tip of the copper coil. Because the condensation is not evenly distributed along the coil that results in not so good reflux control.
I am still looking for a good, easy coil design

Perhaps a series of cross tubes may give better control, reflux can be controlled by varying the number of tubes supplied with water below the product take off. This would require quite a few valves to turn the individual tubes on and off but cheap ones can be used.

[Wharf_Ratt]

Do you have measurements for this still design? I would like to try making one.

[Rockit]

Hey Rad. How's th plan for th vm lm control going. I'm just short of an idea at the moe & I'm thinking KISS

[Rockit]

don't worry. Iv just thought some & it's simple as, just need a ladder,a length of chain&an extra coil. I'm picturing it in my head,I'm @ work I'll draw a pitcure after & we can comment. This post needed a fair bump. Play on.

[bellybuster]

Simple yet elegant design, well done Sir.

I'm a complete noob but as I see it the best way to control reflux ratio with this is not by changing your condenser design but by accurately measuring where your condenser is in the tube. As long as your water temp remains constant a certain position could equal a certain amount of reflux??? A simple "story stick" of sorts attached to your condenser? Simple, possibly effective?

[rz2222]

Hi Manu.
Absolutely amazing design. The "Y" idea is also interesting. Unfortunately I started building my design idea before found this design. Otherwise I would do this one with "Y" and controlling the coolant ratio flow via 3-way valve, like in my build (see here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=34242). The next reflux head I will build will be definitely this one (unless a better one is invented in the meantime ).

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

I know this goes against the "cost and simplicity" concept of the original design of manu de hanoi, but it seems to me that the whole reflux rate issue could be solved with the addition of a needle valve on the take off line and the amount of power put to the boiler. Essentially the same way of operation as the slant plate bokakob. Just leave the position of the condenser completely above the take off collection cup. Whatever does not get collected through the valve, overflows the cup and goes back down to the packing as reflux. No fuss, no muss.

[meatheadinc]

I was reading through old posts looking for a coil design to reduce back pressure for recycled water cooling system ( decided on double coil with cold finger) and thought this post needed a bump. Great design !!

Could you run the coil in reverse (feed and return at product side)with the tails of the coil on the outside and use them as rails to slide for reflux control and prevent pooling around product cup
There would be lost efficiencies with the contact of both cool " in line " and " hot return line " contacting the shell, but that could be overcome with water flow.

Just throwing in an idea

[jahmes143]

Love the simple design.

Manu - Have you solved the issue of poor control (caused by most condensation occurring only within the first few condenser loops)....which you explain here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=41650.

Also, is there a downside to running the condenser directly above the column as pictured in DAD's top picture here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=41579 (as opposed to running the condenser in an angled arm)? Just trying to keep it as simple as possible.

[manu de hanoi]

still no solution. DAD reports good control on his design

[Clamsmasha]

Hi everybody,

7 year thread bump....

Has anyone used this design as a daily driver? Anyone still using it? Any love?

I would love to hear your feedback as I have just built a 2” x 44” column to sit on a keg boiler. My first build and my first experience with a reflux capable still...I just saw the design drawing and thought it was genius in it’s simplicity.

I originally built a very long double helix copper condenser in 1/4” copper but started to think it would be extremely fidgety for reflux control. Only yesterday I came across this post on control issues http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=41650
so I ditched the copper and went to csst. I have run the hot and cold lines in parallel so as to “stretch” the area of condensation...my god, this stuff is so much easier to work with than copper coil!

I’ll hopefully do the vinegar and cleaning eth runs in the next day or 2 and report back...ps I’m using this to make mostly rum atm.

Still and condenser..I’ll take some better pics when ready to launch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hqXdiAEhEo4uQVjT9

[kimbodious]

Ah so it is a LM design where it is condensate not vapour exiting via the offtake and the condensate from the output is whatever temperature it is when it came out via the offtake. Okay so it involves one less condenser but will be quite slow to operate particularly as a pot still.

[Clamsmasha]

Hey kimbodious,

Well I think the promoters of this design and the later iteration (DAD) consider it a vm design but obviously you can play tweaky tweaky with the coolant too. I did so only to the extent that I adjusted the water to the minimum flow rate to do the job and left it alone after that.

I ran the vinegar clean today. Single 2400w element on a 50lt keg but I will use a second 2400 for warmup when distilling.

The the condenser is about 12” long and when was parked north of the takeoff (in pot mode) it knocked down all steam at a very low rate of water flow. That’s without any scrubbies. That was the csst 4 pipes in parallel, which I purposely made to be inefficient to help with reflux control. I have a. csst twisted helix too (like 2 helixes in parallel) which should be more efficient, if I ever need it.

I can’t see why this would be particularly slow in either reflux or pot, although I’ll find out soon. Especially pot mode...it’s watts in the bottom, knockdown up top and condensate out the pipe.....as long as the condenser can suck out the watts it should be fine.

Unless you’re talking about running pot through a packed column?

[kimbodious]

Definitely a LM because it is liquid not vapour exiting via the offtake. ?The proof will be how many litres per hour output yo can achieve when you can run your still on a stripping run on pot still mode for your rum.