Rum: light and dark from the same batch - theory

[el-zonko]

My first couple of months distilling were devoted to UJSSM. I've been learning cuts with that and am now familiar with chemistry-lab-heads and dog's-been-swimmin-tales. My cuts are getting tighter.

In the past couple of weeks, I've moved onto rum. Can't say I've ever been a rum drinker apart from in cocktails. Never been impressed with it. My homemade stuff has blown me away. I've loved it.

From my first batch, I took super tight cuts. Hearts only. Left plenty of feints and separately collected the rum oils. Yield of potable to feints was bout 1:3. Total yeild a measly 880ml @ 70% (my still is small remember).

Anyway, this is my theory:

People around the forums and beyond say that there are many differences between light and heavy rum (NB: to differentiate from colour, I will say white and dark rum) is the amount of congers in it. Congers appear more in the tails and require longer aging.

So, in theory, I could collect both light and heavy rum from the same batch by bottling the appropriate cuts. Say, of 15 jars, light would be: 3,4,5,6 and heavy would be 6,7,8,9

The light could be left white, even flavoured with fruit and drunk sooner. The heavy, (perhaps coloured to make dark) and aged for longer.

That way I get some upfront supply - shit I need it - and something special in the cupboard.

Would you agree with this theory?

Cheers,

Zonko

[LWTCS]

My still is a bit,,,,,specialized I guess one could say.. So my approach is different and yet similar.
I like the cleanest part of some dirty hearts, then ramp up the reflux on the ass end of the hearts to clean up what would ordinarily be late hearts into tails.

[Barney Fife]

I don't like your theory, as it implies that full flavored rums are "dirty", and they're not. You can make a clean, light rum by using more sugar and less molasses, or distilling to a higher ABV in a reflux still. You can also make a clean, full-flavored(IE: heavy) rum the same way, but using more, or all, molasses in your wash.

I suggest you make a good molasses wash, and take your first run as your heavy rum, then add sugar to bring 8-10%, to --all-- the dunder, plus enough water to top up the fermenter. A few generations of this, and you'll have a lot of variations of rum, from heaviest(the first one) to lightest, the last one.

I find my lightest rums are the ones that need the most help from oak, and that my heaviest ones are best kept in the white. White rum doesn't have to be a light rum...!

[LWTCS]

Good points by Barney. Install some good rum funk on your washes and stil strictly.

BTW, my dirty hearts come off in the high to mid 80s.I'll draw heads off good and sllw. Then back to reflux mode for a bit. Then collect a goodly heart section pretty fast. Soon as the alcometer starts to rise I'll throw her back into reflux mode and squeeze the rest of the run with a bit more reflux
Its not so easy to stilll away a good rum funk.

[rtalbigr]

My still is a bit,,,,,specialized I guess one could say.. quote]

Trueer words have never been spoken!!

[quote="Barney Fife"

I find my lightest rums are the ones that need the most help from oak, and that my heaviest ones are best kept in the white. White rum doesn't have to be a light rum...!

Very interesting Barney. I'm waitin for my dunder to "age," got at least 4 months to go. So are you sayin don't put heavy rum on oak and just leave it "white"??? I have a lot a respect for your views on agin on oak and I'm interested in your input here. But I guess I'm gonna have to try it both ways, just to see for myself. I guess I'll have the answer in a couple a years.

Big R

[Barney Fife]

So are you sayin don't put heavy rum on oak and just leave it "white"???

No no... You can definitely put a heavy rum on oak. What I was saying was that I find my lightest rums benefit most from oak, simply because they have less, and less complex/interesting, flavors to begin with. I oak much of my heaviest rums, too, but I do find that the heavy rums are very enjoyable when left in the white, so I do put some aside and simple age them in loosely covered containers(so that a bit of air exchange can still take place).

[LWTCS]

I think Barney is saying that his good rummy washes are stilled strictly enough that the distillate from heavier washes don't need to sit on oak to tame back any harshness that may be smear'd through a more loosely stilled product. And that perhaps the oak can in some ways mask the honest quality of a nice rummy (and clean) white.

Where as the lighter (more sugar) rums are thin and can benefit from some oaky complexities

But by all means,,,drink it how ya like it.

[rtalbigr]

Ok, I get what you're sayin. Thanks Barney and LW.

I guess I'm planning on going the heavy rum when ever my dunder has aged enough.

Last rum I did would, I guess, be a medium rum, I didn't use and dunder in mashing. I put all the dunder in my pit. I have some of it on oak now, but I did keep some white and I really enjoyed it. What I have on oak should be ready to taste in another month or two. It's in a well used 5L barrel.

Big R

[el-zonko]

OK, this thread went on to aging dunder and other stuff, but to get back on the subject of the original post - here's a little update.

On my last rum spirit rum, of 18 very small jars, I kept jars 3-9 as hearts. They tasted very clean - perhaps too clean really, so I turned all of it into spiced rum (that's very popular).

From jar 10 onwards, I thought there was more of a molassey nose that before. I liked it but the wife thought the smell and the taste was weird. Although I liked it, I had to admit that was the tails coming through.

So, I selected jars 10 and 11 (which averaged out at about 65%) and put them on very light (pre-used for bourbon aging) oak.

After a couple weeks, I have checked the progress. It smells different! I am no rum expert, but that smells quite richly of rum. The wife said it smells floral! I thought that was quite significant as I hadn't suggested "floral" as something she might smell.

I tasted a tiny bit and unfortunately it tasted tailsy. Hopefully, that will mellow.

This might not work in the end, but hey, it was only going in the feints jar anyway.

I only wish I had kept one bottle completely white!

[LWTCS]

The wife said it smells floral! I thought that was quite significant as I hadn't suggested "floral" as something she might smell.

Good observation on her part.

I find (with the way I run my still) that within hours after I run I get some buttery notes that last a week or so,,,then transform to more floral notes as more time time passes......Then the florals seem to drift into the more widely familiar rummy quality........

But I can rarely get past letting any kind of bulk age whats so ever........I got A bunch of product in different vessels getting good,,,,but I keep drinking and gifting till I only have bits and peices all over the pantry.......Only few more days and my orange rum batch will be down the hatch ,,,,,,,,,I mean

[Knew2Brew]

I don't like your theory, as it implies that full flavored rums are "dirty", and they're not. You can make a clean, light rum by using more sugar and less molasses, or distilling to a higher ABV in a reflux still. You can also make a clean, full-flavored(IE: heavy) rum the same way, but using more, or all, molasses in your wash.

I suggest you make a good molasses wash, and take your first run as your heavy rum, then add sugar to bring 8-10%, to --all-- the dunder, plus enough water to top up the fermenter. A few generations of this, and you'll have a lot of variations of rum, from heaviest(the first one) to lightest, the last one.

I find my lightest rums are the ones that need the most help from oak, and that my heaviest ones are best kept in the white. White rum doesn't have to be a light rum...!

I digging this one up because this thread was the closest I could find to what I'm looking for.
I like the idea of running heavy rum followed by light rum, but I'm new to this. When making your second mash, how would you know what needs to go in the mash, like lbs sugar/gal, and would any nutrients need to be added for the yeast?

[LWTCS]

Youll find it more logical to make the light rum first as your first batch will not have any dunder.
Just just settle on a recipe and git makin. After you git you operation cycling you can start tweeking to suit your vision.

[Knew2Brew]

Youll find it more logical to make the light rum first as your first batch will not have any dunder.
Just just settle on a recipe and git makin. After you git you operation cycling you can start tweeking to suit your vision.

So for the second batch, would one then use more molasses and less sugar as compared to the first batch? Isn't that the difference between light and heavy rums?

[HolyBear]

Nice post fellers...I'm book marking this one...

[Barney Fife]

Different ways to tackle this one. LW appears to do it differently than I do, but here's my method(already mentioned above, but for clarity...).

New wash will be mostly molasses, at about 2.5:1 ratio, molasses to sugar. You can tweak this as you prefer, up or down, but that's my starting point.

After stillin', I pour the slightly cooled(don't pour 200 degree dunder into a plastic bucket! bad, bad idea.... let it cool to around 140 or so) dunder into a clean container, and add sugar to it right away. The sugar will melt instantly in the hot dunder. Stir with a wooden or metal spoon( plastic will just get all soft and limp on ya), cover lightly, and let it cool. When it reaches room temp, pour it from a decent height back into your original fermenter, which still has the yeast cake on the bottom; pouring it from a height will add air to it. Top it up to your original level with clean, warm water, again splashing it to introduce as much air as you can while you're at it. Check the SG, adjust up or down as required/wanted, and you're done. The old yeast will happily get to work on the new sugar.

In my case, that first run will be my fullest rum. the following generations will be lighter, since I'm only adding sugar. No more molasses from here-on. Reusing all the dunder like this concentrates the molasses flavor quite a bit, so on one hand, it should become a fuller rum as the generations proceed, but that's not what I'm finding.

After the 3rd generation, the dunder may need adjusting the pH a bit(depends on your water, I suspect), and some fresh nutrients will help; I'll toss a handful or two of cracked corn, or bran, or whatever, just to keep the yeast happy happy. At 5 generations, I usually start-over with a whole new wash, 'cept I keep the yeast if it was still performing well.

[edge]

A newbie question, when you refer to dunder is that interchangeable with backset or are you referring to the foam of fermentation?

Along with that question do you/could you add residue from the fermentation tank to that of the still and add no new yeast.
Just trying to figure out what works and what doesn't from the experts.

Thanks, edge.

[blind drunk]

foam of fermentation

That's the original meaning of the term in rum making. Here, dunder and backset are the same thing, the former for rum and the later for grain/sugarhead, usually.

[LWTCS]

New wash will be mostly molasses, at about 2.5:1 ratio, molasses to sugar. You can tweak this as you prefer, up or down, but that's my starting point.

..

Yes, thanks for differentiating Barney....and the common thread here is that it is the unfermentables or the accumulation of unfermentables within the wash that give the product its heavy or light character.

I use 100% panela (condensed cane juice)for my ferments. 8 or 10 pounds per 25 liter volume or so.
Molasses in my area is pretty expensive....
The panela has had no sugar (sucrose) rendered out of it like molasses. So my initial batch will be "lighter"...
As such, I add back 25% dunder to total volume on subsequent batches within my cycle in order to install some heavier notes...as well as charge my thumper with dunder to help carry over some heavier qualities.

I would say that in general my base rum (recipe) is going to be a bit lighter than the more traditional approach one can employ by using molasses. And as such, my heavier notes come later rather than sooner...

Hope that clarifies this discussion a bit better rather than fragmenting it.
Cheers Barney

Larry

[edge]

LWTCS, what SG would you normally get using your panela wash, and how much rum do you yield from 25l?

Thanks, edge.

[LWTCS]

LWTCS, what SG would you normally get using your panela wash, and how much rum do you yield from 25l?

Thanks, edge.

Well I have never measured. And because this is evaporated cane juice rather than ,,,,say a "C" strike "raw" sugar product...there is no real way to figure the gravity/brix from batch to batch unless one takes a measurement,,,,as the amount of sucrose and fructose can vary from crop to crop,,,,season to season,,,,,much like any other fruit or crop or what have you.....But Dnderhead helped me reckon that 10lbs of panela may be the equivalent of 8 pounds of refined (plus or minus)......I typically don't really care what I get as I will get what I get and I don't get upset
And depending on the way I run my still,,,,,my yield can also vary. But I collect about 2 to 2.5 liters...and with that boiler charge I add back last run feins..
Did I say that clearly???as Friday is upon me

[Poitín Paddy]

Love this discussion and bookmarking for future reference!

[edge]

LWTCS, thanks

I can get it for about 1.50 per pound from Shop-Rite without any searching!
It seems that some feed molasses, some panela, and some cane sugar to conserve costs should make for a good wash...thanks.

edge.