freezer aging ??

[WalkingWolf]

I made an interesting observation this weekend. I took out a bottle of UJSSM (mixed grain) from a Jan ’11 run that has been on oak and had been in a freezer. I compared this to the same batch that has been on oak in a room of the house. The aroma of the one from the freezer is stronger with a noticeable bourbon smell. The other bottles had a very slight smell. The flavor profile was more pronounced as well even to the point of having an almost sweet taste to it. Had somewhat of a Jim Beam taste. The other bottle's flavor was good but decidedly different than the one that had been in the freezer. Makes me wonder what affect the constant cold has on the aging process. The bottles had the oak from the same batch and had the same amount in each. The bottle in the freezer was put in the freezer and left there – it was not taken out and put back in as in distress aging.

[hackware]

don't know about how other distillers do it, but at jack daniel's, they age their whiskey in oak barrels in open rafter barns...

they said the changing seasons effected how the aging process worked...

i would suspect that in a freezer, there would be little, if any changes in vapor in the barrel...

might just be better tho... time will tell if ya keep at it...

[Mud Mechanik]

I was thinking of trying that same thing there wolfie, glad to know there are definite differences in results.

[WalkingWolf]

don't know about how other distillers do it, but at jack daniel's, they age their whiskey in oak barrels in open rafter barns...
they said the changing seasons effected how the aging process worked...
i would suspect that in a freezer, there would be little, if any changes in vapor in the barrel...
might just be better tho... time will tell if ya keep at it...

This was done "by accident" so to speak. I had left the bottle out on the counter and my wife, recognizing a quart of liquor with some oak, placed the bottle on the bottom shelf of the freezer door. Having been busy this spring I simply forgot it was even in there. I'm not necessarily advocating this method but reporting what I found on observation. For me, freezer space is too limited to be able to do this on any larger scale than novelty. I guess what I'm most interested in is will the flavor eventually "catch up" or will they simply remain two distinctly different flavored liquors.

[frozenthunderbolt]

I could imagine and speculate that if the wood had soaked first then was frozen the free water molecules in the timber might freeze creating micro-cracks in the wood allowing the alcohol to penetrate and circulate more.
Pure conjecture of course . . . but makes sense in my head

[Dnderhead]

here we go ageing takes time there is no way around it. by trying speeding this up your just flavoring, if that is want you wont
wood flavord alcohol then use a vacuum proses then you can flavor in just minutes. heat not cold ages as it is acids
working on alcohols/congers and acids are more active at higher temperature.( if you want look up artificial flavors/essence)
this can be speed ed up in labs by adding certain alcohols with acids usually with a catalyst,some can be made at home,
but i whould not recommend drinking them.

[Bagasso]

here we go ageing takes time there is no way around it...
...heat not cold ages as it is acids working on alcohols/congers and acids are more active at higher temperature.

Wait so you can't speed it up but heat speeds it up.

[Dnderhead]

cold sure wont,it mite help draw stuff out of the barrel.as it expands with heat then contracts with cold.
this could make a presser/vacuum in a barrel that is sealed. but for ageing higher temperature do this to a extent.
but its not going to make a 1 month old whisky taste like a 10 year old. more like it whould cut the time needed
to age by a few percentages.or by 1/2 if you compared to a product that spent 1/2 in cold and 1/2 time in heat.
it is known that a product aged in tropics ages 2x faster than in cold climates.

acids are more active the warmer they are ,these acids acting on alcohols is is part of what ages and give whisky/rum some of there
flavors.if you look up artificial flavors/essence you will see many of what gives a vodka/neutral off flavors mixed with acids change
to different flavors/essence.these are usually mixed,,heated,some times with a catalyst that speeds up the process.
so that methanol mite taste/smell like you added some sort of fruit after ageing.
one place the acids come from are the oak.that is one reason oak is a preferred wood.

that is why you will see some say the "I over oaked " my product so I sat it in the cupboard and forgot it for a year then it was the best Iv made.

[Bagasso]

I was pointing out the contradiction. So then yes you can cut the time down.

Also our friend The Chemist wrote:

These threads just keep getting more interesting!! First thermodynamics, now free radical chemistry. You're right, Army. Hydrogen peroxide does work. Unfortunately, due to confidentiality agreements I have entered into, that's about all I can say. Sorry .

I see it posted alot here that only time can age but posts like The Chemists got me thinking that if the commercial stillers actually found something that works they wouldn't share it with the world. This is what he found but couldn't talk about. He does hint at certain things in a round about way.

[Dnderhead]

adding chemicals is not a option id recommend for the novice,the product whould have to be analyzed and just the right amount added so as to neutralize each other. you cant just randomly add.

[Bagasso]

Missing my point. It isn't about the how it's about the fact that aging can be sped up but nothing is ever published because they're trade secrets.

[WalkingWolf]

I could imagine and speculate that if the wood had soaked first then was frozen the free water molecules in the timber might freeze creating micro-cracks in the wood allowing the alcohol to penetrate and circulate more.
Pure conjecture of course . . . but makes sense in my head

I would like to bring this back on topic so-to-speak. I simply made an observation from sampling liquor that had been on oak in a freezing environment uninterrupted for approximately 6 months. I did not want to re-start a discussion of what constitutes aging or not but simply some thoughts from folks on what may have contributed to the distinctly different flavor profiles of the two compared bottles of liquor. After all, they were identical at the start. The response above was more of what I was looking for and I appreciate your feedback FTB.

[LWTCS]

I think a note worthy (if nothing more) observation Wolfie.. For your own edification (or who ever's).

Good to spank, slap, twist , squeeze and turn inside and out....Get to know your likker...

[Bagasso]

The response above was more of what I was looking for and I appreciate your feedback FTB.

Sorry WalkingWolf I know that that is what you were looking for. It's just that "aging can't be hurried" is often thrown out there to dismiss observations like yours and frankly it's wrong.

I do agree with the Dnderhead in that it could just be more flavor being extracted from the wood. The cold may even help extract good flavor without extracting alot of tannins. Kinda like sun brewed tea tastes smoother than boiled tea and cold brewed tea is smoother still.

[WalkingWolf]

I do agree with the Dnderhead in that it could just be more flavor being extracted from the wood. The cold may even help extract good flavor without extracting alot of tannins. Kinda like sun brewed tea tastes smoother than boiled tea and cold brewed tea is smoother still.

Good point of reference -- I much prefer sun made tea for that very reason.

No harm -- thanks for the input

[Dnderhead]

another thing that could have happened. the cold retained the smell and the one room temperature the smell evaporated.

[Samogon]

My experience has been that the temperature of the whiskey when it is removed from the wood seems to make a difference. That is, if the whiskey is hot when it comes out of the barrel (summer) it can taste dramatically woody and astringent, but the exact same spirit removed when cool tastes mellower and sweeter.