Mr P's first All Grain Wheat Whiskey.

[Prairiepiss]

Ok I decided to take it to another level. And try my hand at AG. I decide to use an all wheat grain bill. I'm going for a 10 to 12 gallon ferment. But my equipment for cooking is not that big so I cut the cooking in half. I cooked the first half tonight. Second half will be tomorrow night. On to the recipe.

5/6 gallon batch
6 gallons water
8 lbs Wheat flakes.
2.5 lbs White wheat malt.
2 tsp Gypsum.
Crosby & Baker DADY yeast.

I added 6 gallons of water to my what I thought was a 40 qt stock pot. It turns out its only 32 qt. Anyway I pulled 2 gallons back out. I added the gypsum and heated it to 170 f. cut the heat. Added the flaked wheat. Temp dropped to 159 f. I stirred it every 5 minutes till temp hit 155 f. I had to add about a gallon of the water I took out earlier. I had warmed it up to just in case. 4 gallons just wasn't enough for that much flaked wheat. When temp hit 155 f I added the malt. Stirred it every 15 minutes or so. Temp dropped a little faster then I wanted. So I turned the burner back on low and I added some more of the still hot water I took out earlier. Brought the temp back up a little. I let it rest for 120 minutes. Did an iodine test. What you know I got good conversion. I poured it through my straining bag. Rung it out the best I could. Ended up with about 4.5 gallons. Book a sample for the hydrometer. It was still hot and I got a reading of 1.050 SG. So I let it set out and cool. It's sitting at 70 f now and says 1.60 SG. I put the sweet juice in a bucket and put the lid on it. When I get tommaros book done I will add them to my big fermenter and airate with an air stone and pitch the yeast.

I would say for my first time. I did pretty good. I want to thank Dnderhead and Big R. Without their help I would have been lost. And to the forum where I have learned so much.

Oh forgot to add. I will be rinsing the grain with fresh water for tommaros cook.

[Odin]

Go get them, Mr P!

Well ... it seems like you are on your way!

Odin.

[maheel]

are you worried about infection from not boiling and letting it cool overnight ?
i have had a couple of go's at AGing for whiskey, mostly a fail...
but i am a AG beer brewer as well so boiling wort is always on my mind
i boiled the wort and no-chill cubed it

my fail was massive puking on my pot still runs when trying AG whiskey , my mash was barley and malt
so maybe be ready for a puke, or use a big head space in boiler ?

i am kind of planning a coil for chilling mashes to have another go next year without boiling or waiting to pitch

[Prairiepiss]

No I'm not really concerned with a risk of infection. It should be fine overnight. I could bring it to a boil tonight. I doubt I will.

Rockchucker my fermenter wouldn't be good for fermenting on the grain. Maybe latter on I can get a better fermenter for on the grain. So at this point this is the best solution for me. but I mite do a sugarhead with the spent grains on a smaller scale. I will think about that.

[Prairiepiss]

Got about a half hour left on the second batch. Just checked it hasn't fully converted yet.

I rinsed yesterdays grain for todays mash water. Todays grain is going to get split between my 2 5 gallon buckets and sugar is on the stove inverting to add to the grain. I'm going to use EC-1118 with the sugar washes. Going for kind of a vodka with it.

[Prairiepiss]

Ok second batch same as the first. Well a little different. Got full conversion of starches. As per iodine test. That's cool by the way. I ended up with a little more liquid with this one and lost one point because of it. I suspect. Ended up at 1.059. But I'm happy with how things went overall. It is more work for a smaller amount. But I could see me really getting into it. Bigger equipment would be a must. Don't know how that will happen any time soon? Anyway I have the air stones going. Waiting for the temp to come down. So I can pitch the yeast. Ended up right at 10 gallons in the fermenter.

And I ended up adding 3 gallons of water to 2 5 gallon buckets and the grain from this batch. Added 5 lbs of sugar to them. They are waiting for the temp to drop to. I still haven't figured out what I will do with them. How to run them that is. Even I'd I got 6 gallons out of them. I know I won't. 6 gallons I think is pushing the minimum limit of my boiler. But I couldn't let the grain go to waste.

[Prairiepiss]

Ok I woke up late this morning. I was short on time. So I dint get to prepare the yeast like I wanted to. Here is what I did. I warmed up some RO water to 95ish. Put 1/4 cup in two jars and 1/2 cup in a third jar. I added one package of EC-1118 to each of the 1/4 cup jars and approx 16 g of the Crosby & Baker DADY in the 1/2 cup jar. Let them rehydrate for approx 20 minutes. While I got ready for work. Normally I would add a little wash to the jars and let them get to working. I didn't this time. I just pitched the rehydrated yeast. The EC-1118 in the two sugarhead buckets and the DADY in the AG Wheat. The fermenter temps were low 70ish. Temps fell and it snowed last night.

I got home a little bit ago. None of the airlocks are doing anything. So I checked the temps buckets sitting at 76 f and big fermenter is at 73 f. I could feel warmth on the out side of the fermenters. They are warmer at the top of the liquid level then the bottom. I opened the buckets. Both have the grains covering the top of the wash not much foam and I could hear them bubbling. And they smell like a nice bread. They are working just slow. I snapped the lids back on. Will let them work at the lower temps. The AG I opened it up there is a layer of the finer grain that got though my strainer bag not much foam to speak of. I couldn't hear any bubbling action. But it to smells like a nice bread a little sweater then the others. So I would say its working and must be very slow because of the temp. So I put the coat on it with the heating pad to get the temp up closer to 80 f. Wait and see. Not worried at this point. All looks good to me. Other then the fact its cold in my fermenting area.

[Prairiepiss]

I wouldn't say I nailed it yet? When I get some activity out of that airlock I mite.

[Prairiepiss]

One of the two buckets is bubbling now. I have had problems with them sealing before. But I'm not really concerned with the buckets. It's the 15 gallon drum I'm worried about. It has the AG wort in it. And I know it seals.

And it ain't no wonder its efen cold in this room. My children have been turning the heater off. WTF So my room is freezing cold. Ok maybe not freezing. But its cold in here.

[Prairiepiss]

To buckets going happy.

AG fermenter not. I really think this yeast is my problem. Trying to decide if I should pitch some bakers yeast or not? See this thread about some testing I did with the yeast. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 39&t=25434

Pitched 3 more starter jars of the DADY. One of which I thought was going good. Still no activity this morning.

[Bushman]

If you have two buckets going why don't you pitch in one and see what happens!

[Prairiepiss]

If you have two buckets going why don't you pitch in one and see what happens!

Sory didn't quite follow you on this one.

The two buckets I used a different yeast in. Then the bigger fermenter.

[Bushman]

If you have two buckets going why don't you pitch in one and see what happens!

Sory didn't quite follow you on this one.

The two buckets I used a different yeast in. Then the bigger fermenter.

Gotcha!

[Prairiepiss]

It's got another 8 hours to prove itself. If not I'm dropping a bomb on it.

[rtalbigr]

You could have some bad yeast (I posted at your other thread as well), but I think your problems is temps. This yeast does best at higher temps 80F+. It doesn't do well at all below that. Putting your rehydrated at 95F in your cold wort probably shocked the hell outa the yeast killin a lot of it. Yeast can't stand that kinda shock. You need to pitch your yeast at a temp very close to your wort. With this yeast you need to have your wort close to 80F and then pitch your rehydrated at no higher than 85F. I really think that's your problem here.

Big R

[Prairiepiss]

Ok there is something wrong with my wort. Not the yeast. You can read the long story here. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 39&t=25434

Short story I tested 3 yeasties with some of my wort. DADY, EC-1118, and bakers yeast. The bakers yeast is the only one of the three that showed any sign of life after the addition of the wort.

So I rehydrated a large amount of bakers yeast. After it set for 15 min I added some sugar water. When I turned into a foam fountain I added it to the fermenter. And now 20 min later its bubbling its ass off.

I'm not going to call it a victory. As I still don't know why the other 2 yeasties wouldn't start in it?

All I can do now is wait.

Thanks all for your help. I need some liquid help now.

[Prairiepiss]

I'm sitting here with a drink now. Got me thinking.

I used the left over grain in the 2 buckets with sugar. They are not having any problems. So what the flip. Did the starches not convert to fermentable sugars? I mean if there was something with the grains that caused this problem. Would the buckets not have a problem to? Really the only difference is the sugar? And yeast EC-1118 but that yeast wouldn't do anything in the AG either.

Man I knew this AG thing was going to easy for a first time.

I need another drink.

[Prairiepiss]

Yes I always taste it. Start it was sweet. Not as sweet as I was expecting. But it was a first so I had nothing to go by. That's when the SG was 1.059. Today I tasted it. It had a winey beer taste sweet was there not a lot but it was there. And the SG was 1.050. So it seams to have worked off a little?

[Dnderhead]

sounds like its working..

[Prairiepiss]

sounds like its working..

It defiantly is now. Mater of fact the airlock is whistling now. It's working so hard.

But it dropped 9 points up till today. When I pulled the sample today and added it to the 2 yeasties. It settled out like a ferment that had finished. no action what so ever. And it wouldn't go any further. But the bakers yeast seams to be fine with it. It's got me cornfused?

[Prairiepiss]

Well it has slowed way down. I thought it had stopped so I checked the SG its at 1.010. I put the airlock back on it and uncovered it. Thinking mite as well let it cool down to help it clear. And I just looked up to find the airlock going again. Will let it go a little while longer. I wish I had something to rack it off into. So it could clear better. I need to work on that.

The 2 sugarhead wash fermenter buckets have been done for a day or so. Maybe I can run them off Sunday?

I would like to strip both the AG and the sugarheads. And have another go at the same thing. Maybe with the backset? So I could stop it. Then do a spirit run. With both strip runs.

[rtalbigr]

A lot of times an AG is going to finish at around 1.010. I've never had one finish even at 1.000. Probably what you're experiencing is trapped CO2 and it can extend the clearing time. You can degas in several ways but what has worked best for me is cooling the wash and then warming it back up with my brew belts (think of how Coke goes flat when warmed in open container). I also have a degassing whip I made which helps a lot. I switch rotation back and forth being careful not to the let it get too fast, thus introducing air into the wash.

You can run it dirty, I do that a lot, but if you do you can't run your strip hard. Run it more like you're doin a spirit run, nice and gentle. Allow plenty of room in your still for foaming. With AG's heavy in barley and/or oats I usually only fill my pot half way.

Big R

[Bushman]

I wish I had something to rack it off into. So it could clear better. I need to work on that.

That is why I am always on the lookout for more carboys on sale!

[Prairiepiss]

That's what I kinda figured Big R. But I will let it work it self out and clear for now. Until I know I'm going to have time to run it.

One note I forgot to mention. The smells made by these ferments were far more pleasant. Then anything else I've done. I didn't use my carbon filters on the airlocks. I didn't need to.

Sory was posting during Bushman.

I have one. But one isn't enough for my big fermenter. And I look. They just come available when I don't have the cash.

[Prairiepiss]

Little update on what I got going. Life got in my way a little.
The ferment stopped at 1.010. Kinda where I thought it mite end up? I ran the AG off in a stripping run pot still mode. Collected 2 gallons of low wines. Used the backset to start another 10 gal batch. Used 3.5 gallons in it. Basically same recipe as the first. Except I did it all at one time using my new Christmas present. 60 qt Igloo ice cube cooler now my new mash tun. 10 gallons of water 21 lbs grain. Collected 9 gallons of wort. Iodine test said conversion good. SG reading of 1.060. Temp is still a little high to pitch. Need to airate it. And I'm going to attempt the Crosby & Bakers DADY again. I'm going to pitch more this time and see what happens? I've got my fingers crossed. I would like to get it to work. If not I have the old bakers yeast ready to throw at it.

The plan is to add the low wines from the first run in with this run. And run it off pot still mode nice and slow. And see what I get.

[Odin]

Seems you are progressing Mr. P. Maybe slower than expected, but - from my experience - it's a steep learning curve we are in, trying our first AG's.

Odin.-

[rtalbigr]

When I started doin AG's I struggled a lot. I guess you could say that's what made it so interesting. What am I doin wrong, how can I improve, lots of research. It just made it much more interesting than doin a sugar head, and success is then much more rewarding. Thing is I'm still learnin, there's always something different to try.

Big R

[Prairiepiss]

Exactly Big R. I'm hooked. So much more to play with. So much more to learn. So much more fun to be had.

[Prairiepiss]

I have a bottle of alpha. But the local brewshop doesn't have beta. I keep forgetting to pick up beano. I need to order some beta. So I am prepared. Good advice Rock.

[Prairiepiss]

Pitched the Crosby & Bakers DADY this morning. All I did was rehydrate it it 105 f RO water. It started foaming after 15 min without sugar. So I pitched it. Wort temp was 81 f. Came home checked it to find a nice cap bubbling away. Temps up to 83 f now. But it seams to be happy and so am I.

I love it when a plan comes together!