Pressure Safety Valves

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myles
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Pressure Safety Valves

Post by myles »

This is a slightly offball topic as in the majority of cases you should never actually NEED a pressure safety valve. However, there are a few situations in which you might. So this is intended to be a discussion on methods and locations.

I used to run a valved reflux / pot combination still. If I ever had a brain fart it would have been possible to close a wrong combination of valves. For this reason I put in a safety bypass valve and connected the blowout output back into my condenser. I really object on principle to the concept of venting flamable gasses into my still room.

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This was an experimental still that has subsequently been salvaged for parts, but it proved a point. These type of safety relief valves, usualy with 1/2" or 3/4" fittings that are intended for steam or water, will work perfectly well for alcohol vapour. They also work on steam injection rigs and steam mashing setups. IMO they are a better option than the jiggle weights that you see on pressure cookers because they give you the option of venting the flamable vapours to a safe location. For still use I would only use them on cleared washes with no solids in the boiler. I installed mine fairly high up the vapour path (connected to the condenser air vent) through neccesity (between 2 valves) but a better location would be high up in the headspace on the boiler.

In reality you would only ever need one if you managed to block your condenser, and that is determined by your condenser design. I use multiple small diameter worms on my pot still so it is conceiveable that I could suffer a blockage. (I am about to incorporate a puke box - but the concept is still valid) For sugar, rum, cleared fruit washes etc these valves should work fine. The minimum input is 1/2" which should pass foam OK.

However, I am also building another pot still specifically intended for distilling ON the grain. Now I am taking the precaution of using a glycol double boiler so I would have to really screw up to get a puke, but it is possible. Now some other folks might be distilling on the grain and heating by other methods - or considering it, and for them this really should be something they are thinking about. It is unlikely that these valves would cope with a grain puke.

My condenser on the still in question is a coiled liebig with 3 of 10mm vapour paths in the same 1" jacket. Now if I ever blow grain into that I suspect I will be in BIG trouble.

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One simple solution is a nice big 2 or 3" diameter cork that you can blow out of the pot. This will make a hell of a mess, but much less than if you explode your boiler. Off course in addition to grain you will expel flamable vapour into your still room. Always a bad idea and worse if you are heating with gas.

This probably is only relevant to a few folks out there. Most all grainers probably clear the mash and just distill the liquid, but some might wish to distill on the grain. For those small few how are you dealing with the issue?

I haven't dsecided yet but I am considering using the blow out cork method - but blowing it into a puke box so I can capture the grain AND subsequently vent the vapour to a safe location. Bursting disks in a tube big enough to cope with a grain discharge might be another option.

Off course the best option is to make sure it never happens in the first place. This is probably more important for distilling with solids in the boiler than for any other method. I am coming round to the idea that I would like a sightglass so I can watch the conditions in the boiler (this is just for stilling on the grain) AND a manual valve so I can bleed off some vapour if the boil gets too violent. Thick mashes tend to hold the heat and do not respond as fast as cleared washes if you just turn down the power input. And off course with glycol there is a time lag anyway - the glycol is a big thermal buffer that holds in the heat.

So although this might be of limited value to the majority of folks out there, what do you think, and for those on the grain stillers how are you approaching the issue? :)
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Bushman
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by Bushman »

I think the cork is a good idea, smaller relief valves will not allow larger pieces to puck if cooking on grain and could result in plugging the relief valve.
ozone39
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by ozone39 »

I run a water trap safety relief. It is a 10" deep p-trap made from 1/2" s.s pipe that comes right off the boiler shell (make sure the top of the trap is above the weir of the trap, mine is 6" above)..If the pressure for some reason ever got to high it with blow the water out and relieve the pressure. A guy could take it even one more step and put a glass tube on the trap and be able to monitor the water column pressure that the still is running at. Pretty much a manometer/safety relief is what you would have at this point...As well you can pipe this to a bucket or a drain to reduce any mess that result in a blow off condition....
thinking inside the box is for squares....
The Baker
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by The Baker »

ozone39 wrote:I run a water trap safety relief. It is a 10" deep p-trap made from 1/2" s.s pipe that comes right off the boiler shell (make sure the top of the trap is above the weir of the trap, mine is 6" above)..If the pressure for some reason ever got to high it with blow the water out and relieve the pressure. A guy could take it even one more step and put a glass tube on the trap and be able to monitor the water column pressure that the still is running at. Pretty much a manometer/safety relief is what you would have at this point...As well you can pipe this to a bucket or a drain to reduce any mess that result in a blow off condition....
And of course this will also operate in the event of a sudden DROP in pressure
(sucks the water in instead of blowing it out, again equalizing the pressure to atmospheric pressure).
Some of the old moonshiners have told of the boiler crumpling inwards when a sudden rain storm cooling the boiler turned the pressure into vacuum.
(There would have been pressure in the pot still because of the thumper/s and the slobber box).
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HookLine
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by HookLine »

Some possibilities...
VM - Vapour lock 1.jpg
VM - Vapour lock 2.jpg
VM - vapour lock 3.jpg
VM - vapour lock 4.jpg
Be safe.
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And have fun.
myles
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by myles »

Those are all good options HookLine, but on my column I use a different option. I actually connect the reflux condenser air vent, into its own small liebig condenser. This gives a highly visible liquid output indication, if you run the still with too much power.

I don't actually use the reflux column a great deal, for me it is really about re-using surplus feints to provide base feedstock for making infused spirits. As such I have not used it enough to ever come across a problem that would need this sort of protection.

I suppose if you were going to have an issue with a reflux column it might be that you blocked the packing - in which case you would probably want the valve in the boiler headspace. For use with a plated column, I honestly don't know where the best location would be - have never really thought about it. Hard to find fault with the concept of a reflux condenser mounted valve though. Not sure what you would need to do to overpressurise a reflux still - has anyone ever heard of it happening?
HookLine
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Re: Pressure Safety Valves

Post by HookLine »

myles wrote:Those are all good options HookLine, but on my column I use a different option. I actually connect the reflux condenser air vent, into its own small liebig condenser. This gives a highly visible liquid output indication, if you run the still with too much power.
Ferkin good idea, Myles. :thumbup: Gives a warning, without the danger of escaped vapours floating around. Set it up so any condensate out of it has to fall some distance into a metal bucket, so it makes a decent sound to warn you.

Could also run a tube from the vent down into a bottle of water (ie water lock) and sit it in the collection area so it is obvious when vapour is escaping that way.
myles wrote:I suppose if you were going to have an issue with a reflux column it might be that you blocked the packing - in which case you would probably want the valve in the boiler headspace. For use with a plated column, I honestly don't know where the best location would be - have never really thought about it. Hard to find fault with the concept of a reflux condenser mounted valve though. Not sure what you would need to do to overpressurise a reflux still - has anyone ever heard of it happening?
I just happened to draw them for use on a VM (was trying to figure out how to use a VM as a pot still, what would happen if I turned the reflux condenser off). But could be used in any kind of still, I think.

One issue with having the pressure valve on the boiler (ie below any packing or plates) is it could be blocked by crud foaming up in the head space.

Could have two pressure valves, one on the boiler, one above the packing/plates.

Probably best answer is to use a simple pot still for stripping (minimise any possible blocking problem), and then run the clear (ie solid free) low wines through the packed/plated column.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
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