Malt/Malting re-visited

[Harold]

I would like to “semi-revive” a thread first initiated 19 AUG 2011 entitled Yeast nutrient questions for the purpose of edification by a mentor.

(Q) On 22 AUG 2011 Dan Call, the progenitor of the thread Yeast Nutrient Question asked within the body of a follow-up comment the following question, “The question is.....is malted corn already completely converted?"

(A) Dnderhead replies on 22 AUG 2011, “No it’s not converted. It has produced enzymes to do so. You need to convert by grinding and then holding at 140-150f /60-66c. Do this for 1/2-1 hour and then cool to 80f/27c and pitch yeast.”
*NOTE* I have attempted to correct grammar and punctuation so content is more easily understood.

(Q) Dan Call replies 22 AUG 2011: So the key, in the case of having malted corn on hand, is to achieve the strike temperature which I believe is 151 degrees. Hold that for what, ……. an hour in order for conversion to take place? What is the ratio of malted corn to regular corn in order to convert? I've got 16 pounds of corn almost all of it sprouted at least an eighth of an inch. So I need to grind, heat the un-malted mash, add the malt, and then hold at strike temp for a while?
*NOTE* Again, some corrections were made to the text.

(A) rad14701 replies 22 AUG 2011: Corn barely has enough enzymes to convert itself so you're better off using 100% malted corn for a straight corn only mash... The reason folks use malted barley is because it has more enzymes than it requires to convert itself so the excess enzymes convert other unmalted grains...

1. The question, “What is the ratio of malted corn to regular corn in order to convert?” was never answered, however, a reasonable explanation was given as a substitute for the need of 100% malted corn. I would like to know if there is a recommended ratio for malt corn to unmalted corn. If yes, what is the ratio?

2. I too have a problem regarding malt. More specifically my problem deals with dried malt vs fresh malt (if there is such a thing). I visited a local brewery supplier today (Anchorage, Alaska) and I was informed that ONLY dry malt can be used to convert starch to sugar. I was under the impression that when germination begins and sprouts manifest, the grain is malted (contains enzymes to convert starch to sugar).

Please educate me as to why it is first necessary to dry malt and then reconstitute the product before introducing the reconstituted malt to unmalted grain.

3. Why can’t, let’s say Barley or even corn (though corn sparsely contains enzymes), be malted (sprouted), ground without drying (since enzymes are now present), and introduce this “fresh malt” to the unmalted mix prior to bringing the mix to temperature for conversion? Why is it absolutely necessary to dry the malt before introducing malt to the mix? I could understand the need for drying if malt is to be stored but if it’s to be used right away, why must it first be dried?

Harold

[Tater]

Ive done 50 50 malt and unmalted corn with good results.malt can be used wed or dry .Wet has a grassier taste then dried malt still needs ground and malted grain need 150 conversion temp but the unmalted will have to be cooked according to what grain it is . there a chart with temps listed in grains..

[Dnderhead]

1) corn/maze has little enzymes (DP of 40?) this will very,and you should have a average of 30.so corn malt technical will convert 1/4 more grain.

2) there is more enzymes in "green" malt than kilned,so yes it can be used but it will lack to "toasted" flavor.

3) just answered,its not, but most brewers/distillers do not make malt and in order to store/ship it needs to be dryed.

this from a malt Co.

Green malt
Where logistics permit, and malt particularly rich in enzymatic activity is required, it may be possible to use malt direct from the germination floor without kilning. To preserve enzymic activity anaerobic conditions and/or heating must not be allowed to develop and it is not possible to hold the material in store before use. Those flavours which are developed on kilning will be absent, but some enzymes, normally denaturated and inactivated during kilning, will be present to increase the degree to which complex carbohydrates are broken down to fermentable sugars

[Dnderhead]

OK dug back in time,,a long time....
green distillers malt...
steep hours,.....temperature of malting (F)...... time to malt (days)........ DP
barely 40-60................... 60 ............................10-20.......................1,200
wheat 36-48....................60.............................8-16.......................... 800
oats 24-36.................... 65............................. 8-12......................... 200
corn 72-96.................... 75............................. 8-10..........................100
(this malt is over modified for max enzymes.
used to convert other grain not as a starch source.)

[Harold]

OK dug back in time,,a long time....
green distillers malt...
steep hours,.....temperature of malting (F)...... time to malt (days)........ DP
barely 40-60................... 60 ............................10-20.......................1,200
wheat 36-48....................60.............................8-16.......................... 800
oats 24-36.................... 65............................. 8-12......................... 200
corn 72-96.................... 75............................. 8-10..........................100
(this malt is over modified for max enzymes.
used to convert other grain not as a starch source.)

Dnderhead: Help me out just a little. If we use the chart above and barely as our example, I assume that malting is carried out at a temp of 60F. According to the chart, it will take on the order of 10 to 20 days for the grain to sprout. I can't imagine it taking 10 to 20 days to sprout but that is the way I am interpreting the above information. Am I right so far?

The following is where I really need clarification. What is the definition of "steep hours" and is the chart suggesting steeping is carried out for 40 to 60 hours or is it stating that steeping is to be 40 to 60 minutes?

Once again I am assuming that "steeping" is the amount of time required to convert starch to sugar and if I am correct, 40 to 60 hours is a long time for this conversion process. Normally conversion is carried out between 140F and 150F for approximately 60 minutes. Am I correct about that?

Harold

[Dnderhead]

the chart is for max amount of enzymes.it whould not be good used by its self like malt in beer as no/little starch is left.
the article said to sprout slowly the slower the better."I guess if the grain struggles it produces more enzymes trying
to boost growth"? most malts have sprouts the length of grain this said to sprout 3-4x the lenght.
steep -the time the grain is soaked in hours. (this veries )

(its the best ive found so far on malting "distillers malt" and corn.)
http://books.google.com/books?id=SMIjAQ ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Harold]

the chart is for max amount of enzymes.it whould not be good used by its self like malt in beer as no/little starch is left.
the article said to sprout slowly the slower the better."I guess if the grain struggles it produces more enzymes trying
to boost growth"? most malts have sprouts the length of grain this said to sprout 3-4x the lenght.
steep -the time the grain is soaked in hours.

(its the best ive found so far on malting "distillers malt" and corn.)

Dnderhead: I really appreciate the fact that you are "hanging in there with me" while I ask these questions. It is truly appreciated. I have several new books regarding distillation and most answers to many of my questions can be ferreted out via the books. Still, there are some exceptions and I have to call on the more experienced for wisdom. Tater has mentioned 50/50 and that info was also helpful.

There seems to be far more to "this business" than what I was taught many years ago. It would seem that cooking regular corn meal, allowing time for the meal to cool, adding sugar and then yeast was nothing more than a waste of time ..... although ample alcohol was produced. I am quickly learning that cooking corn-meal seemingly did nothing for me what-so-ever because malt was never added to the mix, rather, only sugar and yeast. Apparently the alcohol produced came from added sugar and not from "broken down starch" derived from cooked corn. Years ago I was told that when corn meal is cooked, the cooking process breaks down starch into simple sugar. This is not the case. Cooking will, however, cause number and size of highly organized crystalline starch regions to decrease leading to random, unorganized crystalline regions of starch. Broken hydrogen bonds create space in the crystalline structure thus allowing water to enter the space created by hydrolysis which in turn results in starch gelatinization. In no way has this converted polysaccharides to simple sugars but gelatinization improves the availability of starch for amylase hydrolysis (break down of available starch to simple sugar in the presence of an appropriate enzyme). So obviously my understanding has been wrong all these years.

Harold

[Dnderhead]

yes about right,starch can be broken down other ways but does not sound like something we should try.
yeast will produce their own sugars from starch but very slowly.malting is a hard subject to research.
the malters/distillers dont like to give up information.

[Prairiepiss]

OK dug back in time,,a long time....
green distillers malt...
steep hours,.....temperature of malting (F)...... time to malt (days)........ DP
barely 40-60................... 60 ............................10-20.......................1,200
wheat 36-48....................60.............................8-16.......................... 800
oats 24-36.................... 65............................. 8-12......................... 200
corn 72-96.................... 75............................. 8-10..........................100
(this malt is over modified for max enzymes.
used to convert other grain not as a starch source.)

I just went through the process of malting wheat. I malted 5 lbs and then dried it. But I'm intrigued with the green malt. One less step. And a different flavor profile for experimentation.

So from what you have said and this chart. Wheat for example. I would have to steep for 36 to 48 hours. I'm assuming that is spread out over the 8 to 16 days of malting. It can't be all at once? That would drowned the wheat correct? I have read some say no more the 12 hours at a time. And some say no more then 8. The 12 hour one said to change out the water once or twice during that 12 hours. The 8 didn't say anything about changing with fresh water.

You said it would grow to 3 or 4 times the length of the grain? At that point I assuming you knock off the growth and mill or crush it. Or do you just throw it in whole?

At that point all this green malt is good for is the enzymes. So if my normal grain bill is 20 lbs.where I would normally use 18 lbs of unmalted grain and 2 lbs dry malted. With the green malt I would have to go 20 lbs unmalted and 1 lb green malted. 800 DP / 20 lbs = 40 DP per lb. Because the 1 lb of malt doesn't add any thing but the enzymes. Or would you need to go 800 DP / 21 lbs = 38 DP per lb like normal?

And what are the chances you will get the 800 DP out of it? Should you over compensate to be sure say 50% more?

Sory its all in my head but not real sure how to ask it all. I'm sure I will have more.

[Dnderhead]

its all at once. steep>(or to soak the grain) so wheat you whould "steep or soak" for 36-48 hours,2) then spread out.
turn / mix once a day. sprinkle with water to keep from wilting.this will take 8-16 days at 60f.
this length of time is for the max enzymes,and not for all malt mash,for that less time whould be used.
apparently by using cool temperature and limited water it produces more enzymes.

[Harold]

Ive done 50 50 malt and unmalted corn with good results.malt can be used wed or dry .Wet has a grassier taste then dried malt still needs ground and malted grain need 150 conversion temp but the unmalted will have to be cooked according to what grain it is . there a chart with temps listed in grains..

Tater,

You said that unmalted grain will have to be cooked according to grain type and there is a chart with temperatures listed. Where can I find this chart?

Harold

[Prairiepiss]

Here you go.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=16799

[Harold]

Here you go.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 34&t=16799

Thank you very much. Greatly appreciated.

Harold

[Harold]

I have another question for the general population regarding preparation of unmalted corn-meal or unmalted cracked-corn prior to the process of conversion.

In the past, I have only worked with plain corn meal. The way I was taught, years ago, has proven to be quite challenging and often fraught with disastrous results if one is not attentive. I was taught to bring water to a “rolling boil” and then slowly add meal with copious stirring. Regardless, taking as much care as humanly possible, meal would frequently “clump” into very hot untenable chunks that would have to be removed from the pot. The meal, once having no clumps and heat removed, was left in the pot to cook and cool. Cooling would often take 24 hours or longer before the cooked mush would no longer burn the hand if plunged deep into the pot. Additionally, my mush would turn to a single pot of gelatin which required more work getting this chunk into some semblance of a liquid. For this reason I have been considering cracked corn thinking that larger size pieces would clump less when tossed into boiling water.

While giving thought to preparing this text, I made a fortuitous discovery. Corn meal “wets” much easier in cold water than in hot water. Stated differently, I realized no clumping as I introduced dry corn meal into cold water. Nor did I realize clumping as I poured the cold slurry into boiling water. In no time I had five pounds of meal in my cooking pot without a single clump. While allowing this gelatinous porridge to cool, and pondering all the energy I will expend “liquefying” this gelatinous mess, I had time to read some material on starch conversion. To my dismay, cooking corn meal in the past had done nothing for me …….. whatsoever ……. BECAUSE I had never added malt to the mix so as to convert starch to sugar! So, years ago I was taught incorrectly and ETOH realized was only from pounds and pounds of granulated sugar and the addition of yeast. Ostensibly, cooking corn meal was a total waste of time.

Having stated all this brings me to the following:

1. Is it even necessary to pre-cook corn meal prior to beginning the conversion process? It would seem that if it takes 40 to 60 minutes at 150F to convert starch to sugar, that would be sufficient thus no prior “cooking” would be necessary. After all, pre-cooking does nothing more than cause starch gelatinization.

2. If sufficient enzymes are present during conversion, is it necessary to pre-cook cracked corn?

3. Since cracked corn has less available surface area to react with enzymes, should one expect conversion to take longer than for corn meal?

Harold

[Dnderhead]

thank of grain like a carton of eggs. in order it eat a egg. you first open the carton. with grain this is like cracking.(just like the egg you have to open the hall to expose the starch)
next you brake open the egg,with grain this is cooking (starch like a egg has a membrane this needs to be broken open.this happens by swelling with water,then heating until it burst open),,,next you cook the egg,,,with grain this is using enzymes to convert starch to sugars.

[Harold]

thank of grain like a carton of eggs. in order it eat a egg. you first open the carton. with grain this is like cracking.(just like the egg you have to open the hall to expose the starch)
next you brake open the egg,with grain this is cooking (starch like a egg has a membrane this needs to be broken open.this happens by swelling with water,then heating until it burst open),,,next you cook the egg,,,with grain this is using enzymes to convert starch to sugars.

Yes, I think I have a grasp on the *basis process*. That which I am attempting to clarify in my mind is:

1. Is there a need to first gelatinize unmalted grain (pre-cook)

or

2. Will the grain become gelatinize and converted at the same time malt is added and brought to temperature for conversion"?

[Prairiepiss]

thank of grain like a carton of eggs. in order it eat a egg. you first open the carton. with grain this is like cracking.(just like the egg you have to open the hall to expose the starch)
next you brake open the egg,with grain this is cooking (starch like a egg has a membrane this needs to be broken open.this happens by swelling with water,then heating until it burst open),,,next you cook the egg,,,with grain this is using enzymes to convert starch to sugars.

Yes, I think I have a grasp on the *basis process*. That which I am attempting to clarify in my mind is:

1. Is there a need to first gelatinize unmalted grain (pre-cook)
Yes this would be the cracking of the egg in Dnderheads example.
or

2. Will the grain become gelatinize and converted at the same time malt is added and brought to temperature for conversion"?

If I'm not mistaken it can on some grains. But is a very very slow way of doing it. The geletinize temps are higher then the temps the enzymes can handle. That why its done separate.

Yes you need to cook the grains to gelatinize them as per temps of that grain. You need to do this to break the starches free of the grains so they are dissolved and or suspended in the liquid. Then the enzymes can get to them to convert.

[Dnderhead]

even though you break open the grain exposing the "starch" (this is similar to opening a egg carton) .the starch is still encapsulated in a cell (much like a egg has a shell.)
this needs to be broken,the way to do this is to cook. if it is just soaked it will just swells.by heating it, "over swells" until it pops open.

[ERL]

OK dug back in time,,a long time....
green distillers malt...
steep hours,.....temperature of malting (F)...... time to malt (days)........ DP
barely 40-60................... 60 ............................10-20.......................1,200
wheat 36-48....................60.............................8-16.......................... 800
oats 24-36.................... 65............................. 8-12......................... 200
corn 72-96.................... 75............................. 8-10..........................100
(this malt is over modified for max enzymes.
used to convert other grain not as a starch source.)

I found the information below and wanted to share it for those still needing more help. A few of my comments are included in blue text. I personally have not tried green malt yet, but the concept of such a high DP could make life much easier......in theory.

---

MALTING PROCESS IN A NUTSHELL
by Mark Stevens (stevens@stsci.edu), taken from Homebrew Digest #1571

First, you need to select raw barley that is suitable for brewing. A professional maltster measures the amount of protein in the grain, looks for suitable moisture content, etc. You, on the other hand, can only gauge the quality of the grain by look and feel. Look for large plump kernels of 2-row barley (or 6-row for more enzymes). You also want the kernels to be of fairly consistent size to encourage a consistent germination rate later.

Okay. You've got your barley, what next?

Well, you need to soak it in water. You want the water content of the barley to get up to about 45%. This means that if you're malting 10 pounds of barley, you want it to weigh just over 14 pounds when you're done. The soaking process will take you a minimum of 40 hours (which is within the steep times Dnderhead provided), or at least two days. Historically, quality malts were soaked 65-72 hours [1]. During this time you need to change the water at least daily, and preferably every 8 to 12 hours. You could also devise system whereby the water is constantly but slowly drained while being replenished by some type of slow sprayer. Nineteenth century maltsters changed the water every 24 hours, but current practice is to sprinkle fresh water over the grain constantly---which also allows the soaking time to be reduced to the 40-45 hour range.

After your barley is soaked, you need to germinate it. The traditional floor malting method should work fairly well for you. To do this, spread your soaked barley on a clean floor to a depth of about 8 inches. The temperature in your germinating room should remain consistent at about 60 degrees F (again, within the range in Dnderhead's chart). It will take about 8 to 15 days for the barley to germinate. During this time, you will need to turn and move the barley about every 12 to 24 hours. You should also spray a light mist over it to keep it moist, though not wet. Note that the time the barley takes to germinate properly can vary widely. Less than 8 days is possible, though sometimes as much as 24 days may be required.[1]

Examine the barley to see when germination is complete. You want to look for the new growth stemming out from the end of the kernels and up the back of the grain. This growth is called the "acrospire". When the acrospire is roughly the same length as the kernel, the malt is fully modified. (note: for maximum enzymes, we want the acrospire to be 3 to 4 times the kernel length) If you let it grow longer than the kernel size, the malt is said to be "over modified". If it is shorter than the kernel size, the malt is "under modified".

Neither under nor over modified malt is desired. Undermodified malt still has starch in the grain that could be converted to sugar. Overmodified malt has already started consuming the sugars during the normal plant growth cycle. (note: overmodified works well for us since we are going to add a large amount of unmalted grain that gets cooked and gelatinized, so that the enzymes can break down the starches)

When the malt is fully modified, you need to "kiln" it. This is a 2-step process: drying and curing. In the first step, you are drying the malt at a low heat over a long period of time to drive off the moisture. This is typically done at 90 to 100 degrees F with constant air movement, and takes about 2 days. The grain is done drying when the moisture content drops into the 4 to 5% range. (note: if you kiln the green malt, you will lose some enzymes. You could just grind the moist malt and use it immediately for maximum efficiency. In the chart provided by Dnderhead, barley could have a DP of 1200.....which could potentially convert 40 lbs of unmalted corn with just 1 lb of over modified 6-row barley. Initially, you may want to start out cutting those numbers in half to ensure success. In other words, if you want to mash 40 lbs of corn, make sure you at least have 2 lbs of over modified 6-row barley. I have yet to attempt this so use my advise with caution.)

In the curing stage of kilning, the temperature is raised to 172 to 220 degrees F for another day and half to 2 days (in the 1880s, the preferred temperature was 172, in the 20th century, the practice changed to use 180-220 F).

If you are producing lighter colored pale ale malts, your malt is now ready. (no need to read further...we just want pale malt) However, if you want darker colored malts, you would increase the temperature during the curing stage to produce what are called "high kilned malts".

Some malt varieties would require some changes in the schedule. For a black patent malt, you would roast the malt in a revolving drum at over 400 degrees for one to two hours. For an amber malt, you would increase the temperature during the last 14 hours of drying time to about 140-150 degrees. To make a crystal malt, you would take the germinated barley and heat it to 150-170 degrees for 2 hours with no ventilation, and then increase the temperature to about 250 degrees F. [1,2]

REFERENCES:

"Steeped in Tradition: The Malting Industry in England", by Jonathan Brown, 1983, University of Reading Institute of Agricultural History, Whiteknights.
"Malting and Brewing Science, Volume I", by J.S. Hough et al., 1982, Chapman and Hall, London and New York.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Does malting corn eliminate the need for cooking?

I have found recipes here that simply use 100% malted corn and a 150 degree mash, without cooking the corn first. As I understand it, this is the only possible way to do it, because cooking would kill all of the enzymes. But I thought corn had to be cooked to make its starches available to be converted by the enzymes. Is there something about the malting process that makes the starches in the corn available to the enzymes without cooking?

I thought that malted corn could be used only for its enzymes, to convert unmalted corn starches that had been cooked first. That because it wasn't cooked, the starches in the malted corn would not be available to conversion.

For instance, if I wanted to do an all corn batch that would produce the equivalent of, say, a 10# batch of grain, just for the sake of round numbers, would I:

A) Add 10# of malted corn to 10# of cooked unmalted corn. I would need 10# malted because it can only convert its own weight in starch. Or would this produce 20# worth of product?

B) Add 3# of malted corn to 7# of cooked unmalted corn. I have read that malted corn can convert at a 30/70 ratio. Would that mean 7# would be converted, or all 10#?

C)Simply mash 10# of all malted corn with no cooking. I have read that malted corn produces a different flavor drink that unmalted. Would this convert to sugar without any cooking?

I apologize for putting forth my question in such a confusing way, but I don't know how else to present it.

I understand the process of cooking corn and then mashing with malted barley, but I would like to do a 100% corn mash. I am drying my malted corn now, and just need to know the best, most efficient way to use it.

[Jimbo]

Does malting corn eliminate the need for cooking? CORRECT

I have found recipes here that simply use 100% malted corn and a 150 degree mash, without cooking the corn first. As I understand it, this is the only possible way to do it, because cooking would kill all of the enzymes. But I thought corn had to be cooked to make its starches available to be converted by the enzymes. Is there something about the malting process that makes the starches in the corn available to the enzymes without cooking? CORRECT, malting makes the starches readily available. Its basically natures way of cooking or preparing the starches to be used by the plant as fuel. Only we jump in and take over for our own fuel .

I thought that malted corn could be used only for its enzymes, to convert unmalted corn starches that had been cooked first. That because it wasn't cooked, the starches in the malted corn would not be available to conversion.

For instance, if I wanted to do an all corn batch that would produce the equivalent of, say, a 10# batch of grain, just for the sake of round numbers, would I:

A) Add 10# of malted corn to 10# of cooked unmalted corn. I would need 10# malted because it can only convert its own weight in starch. Or would this produce 20# worth of product? Ive read corn can only convert itself. If thats true, then malt the corn you need and mash away.

B) Add 3# of malted corn to 7# of cooked unmalted corn. I have read that malted corn can convert at a 30/70 ratio. Would that mean 7# would be converted, or all 10#?

C)Simply mash 10# of all malted corn with no cooking. I have read that malted corn produces a different flavor drink that unmalted. Yes malt tastes different that raw grain, many would argue, better. But its subjective. Would this convert to sugar without any cooking? Yes

I apologize for putting forth my question in such a confusing way, but I don't know how else to present it.

I understand the process of cooking corn and then mashing with malted barley, but I would like to do a 100% corn mash. I am drying my malted corn now, and just need to know the best, most efficient way to use it.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Wow, that's awesome, thank you for the reply, Jimbo!
So, I guess it's kind of a trade off with the malted corn: you eliminate the need to do the cooking process, but you need to perform the malting process.
I've read that Woodshed does a 30/70 mash with his malt, and that seems like a pretty efficient way to use the malted corn.
But, then doing a 100% malted corn mash would be be about as easy as doing a 100% malted barley mash..... interesting, opens up a whole new street to travel
I've been doing 60/20/20 corn/barley/rye using your cook/mash method from your Five Grain recipe. I really like the results I'm getting so far, but might experiment with the 100% all malt to see how the flavors compare.

Btw, thank you for the process you share in the Five Grain recipe! Short of using enzymes, that is the easiest, most accessible method for cooking/mashing/fermenting that I've come across. Pretty much foolproof. (I do hope you have upgraded your drain, though, dumping 14 gallons of scalding water sounds hairy, indeed)

Also, I really like the idea of smoking some of the corn malt as I'm drying it. I have a lot of beechwood here at my shop. I know for your all grain recipe you suggest up to 25% peat smoked malt, but what you suggest for beechwood? Do you think it would be more powerful than the peat? I love a good smokey scotch like Laphroaig, but I don't want to overdo it with the beech.

Thanks, again, for the corn malt info!

[Jimbo]

Wow, that's awesome, thank you for the reply, Jimbo!
So, I guess it's kind of a trade off with the malted corn: you eliminate the need to do the cooking process, but you need to perform the malting process.
I've read that Woodshed does a 30/70 mash with his malt, and that seems like a pretty efficient way to use the malted corn.
But, then doing a 100% malted corn mash would be be about as easy as doing a 100% malted barley mash..... interesting, opens up a whole new street to travel
I've been doing 60/20/20 corn/barley/rye Sounds delicious. Nice % split. using your cook/mash method from your Five Grain recipe. I really like the results I'm getting so far, but might experiment with the 100% all malt to see how the flavors compare. Yes, you should do a single malt, to compare. I like the grain blends better, more groceries makes for more things to wrap your tongue around, but again, thats subjective. Gotta do one to see what you think. I did an all barley once too, 80% rolled barley, 20% malt, it was really smooth, almost too smooth if that makes sense. The rye adds a little spank, wheat some bready earthiness, corn some sweetness. etc. Anyway, experiement and decide for yourself what your tastebuds like. If you do a single malt, maybe try splitting it in half, and using 20-30% peated barley in half of it. Single malt smokey like a scotch.

Btw, thank you for the process you share in the Five Grain recipe! Short of using enzymes, that is the easiest, most accessible method for cooking/mashing/fermenting that I've come across. Pretty much foolproof. (I do hope you have upgraded your drain, though, dumping 14 gallons of scalding water sounds hairy, indeed) Youre welcome, this stuff isint rocket surgery. Pretty basic when you knock it down to whats really important. Yes Im still dumping 14 gallons, ugh, but a friend just bought a $6000 TIG welder, so I gonna be modding all my tanks with 1" stainless valves! asap.

Also, I really like the idea of smoking some of the corn malt as I'm drying it. I have a lot of beechwood here at my shop. I know for your all grain recipe you suggest up to 25% peat smoked malt, but what you suggest for beechwood? Do you think it would be more powerful than the peat? I love a good smokey scotch like Laphroaig, but I don't want to overdo it with the beech. Depends completely on how deep you smoke it. I bought some cherry wood smoked malt once that was off the scale. They dont mark the phenol levels of specialty malts tlike that (ppm measurement of the smoke content) But it was up there cause I only used a little and its a gobsmack. Anyway here's an interesting read for your corn smoking experiments. http://www.whisky-news.com/En/reports/P ... ol_ppm.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks, again, for the corn malt info!

[MichiganCornhusker]

Thank you, Jimbo, I really appreciate you feedback! I know the smoke thing is probably going to be a sort of hit or miss thing. Especially if I'm trying to smoke my own grains, going to be hard to judge how much to use.
I do like smokey, so I figure if I try to restrain myself, I should be ok to at least make something drinkable. But, now I just got a good deal on a bunch of potatoes, so I need to jump over to the vodka threads!