Malting your own rye

[st00ge]

Thanks for the reply muckanic
I was thinking the starches where converted when the grain sprouts and has rootlets, think i best read a bit more on the topic
i have 5kg with roots the length of the grain now ill experiment with that

[spud]

Hi

Is it OK to dry your malted grains in the sun ?

Cheers Spud

[Dnderhead]

Yes,,,the birds love ya for that!

[spud]

Thanks for reply

I am not that dumb, I will cover it with mesh.

Cheers
Spud

[SpiritOf76]

I sprout my own lentils and chick peas (great in salads and sandwiches) and occasionally the accidental piece of barley that drops into the lentil jar.
I wouldnt' hesitate to try to malt anything. It's pretty darned easy (seeds and grains WANT to grow!).
I planned to make a rye-heavy all grain when I get up and running. So I've been studying.

I think I read most of this thread, but I ran across this on the mother site under Malting. I'm no alarmist, but I thought it belonged here if nobody has posted, just for the sake of those who want to consider all of the information:

Malting
...
Jack advises ..

Malting for home use is not a difficult procedure, but it should NOT be attempted with oats or with rye.

These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria - these organisms, by themselves are poisonous, and so is the butanol isomers that these bacteria produce (see page 127 (for oats) and page 130 (for rye) in the book "The Homebrewer's Garden" by Joe Fisher and Dennis Fisher, Published in 1998 by Storey Books (http://www.storey.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)).
If you have a need for a malt of either of these grains - purchase it ready made rather than poisoning yourself with the homemade type.

[Tater]

thats been gone over in other threads try a search on ergot

[Midday Moon]

I have a copy of The Homebrewer's Garden, and while it can be a useful text, I find it rather alarmist. In the herb section, for example, there are herbs (like Artemesia) that it warns against, but in my herbology books they rave about the health wonders of the same herbs.

We (most of us here, anyway) live in a microbe phobic culture where we're taught that anything alive is likely dangerous. Big Pharma wants us to beleive that if it isn't in powder or pill form it must be toxic, when the opposite is more often true. Dont fall for it - microbes are our greatest allies!

[drippy]

Dear Unc,
Malting anything if a fun adventure, but time consuming. The malting process for the amount needed for a five gallon wash would take up so much time and money that it does not seem economical. But toasting your own grains is. Try toasting them when you smoke a meat on the smoker, or on the grill for a intresting tast, this will be all trail and error, but what else are you going to do in this life. Drippy

[Dnderhead]

malting just like anything else,depends on whats available where you live.if you can buy in balk
fine if not then you probably wont save a thing.as fare as I'm concerned this goes for making anything.
buying from a food store/brew shop is fine for a experiment but it it wont be economical.
that is why you see the "big boys" set up distilleries in certain places.

[Rachiu]

I use this for malting. There are 2 PET bottles of 10 liters one over the other. The upper one has a perforated bottom and the air is pumped with a 2W aquarium pump. It sprouts very nice and uniform.

[Fourway]

I sprout my own lentils and chick peas (great in salads and sandwiches) and occasionally the accidental piece of barley that drops into the lentil jar.
I wouldnt' hesitate to try to malt anything. It's pretty darned easy (seeds and grains WANT to grow!).
I planned to make a rye-heavy all grain when I get up and running. So I've been studying.

I think I read most of this thread, but I ran across this on the mother site under Malting. I'm no alarmist, but I thought it belonged here if nobody has posted, just for the sake of those who want to consider all of the information:

Malting
...
Jack advises ..

Malting for home use is not a difficult procedure, but it should NOT be attempted with oats or with rye.

These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria - these organisms, by themselves are poisonous, and so is the butanol isomers that these bacteria produce (see page 127 (for oats) and page 130 (for rye) in the book "The Homebrewer's Garden" by Joe Fisher and Dennis Fisher, Published in 1998 by Storey Books (http://www.storey.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)).
If you have a need for a malt of either of these grains - purchase it ready made rather than poisoning yourself with the homemade type.

OK two things...
1>Ergot is a sexually transmitted disease of live grain. It is spread by spores which mimic pollen and infect the individual grains.
Ergot can be grown in labs on harvested grain but it was a big breakthrough for the pharma industry when they worked out how to do this... it's not something that happens by accident.
You really dont need to worry about ergot unless it's already on the grain when you buy it/harvest it... and then it can be spotted easily.

2>The passage in the the Homebrewers Garden about "butrifying bacteria" is pure unadulterated horseshit. There are references all over the internet to this mysterious danger and every single one of them points back to the un-cited assertion in The Homebrewers Garden... which contains a big pile of other obviously invented malarkey... oh and "butryfying"? its not a real word.

Rye and oats malt just fine.
I've repeated this exact same post here on this board at least half a dozen times.

[Fourway]

These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria - these organisms, by themselves are poisonous "The Homebrewer's Garden" by Joe Fisher and Dennis Fisher, Published in 1998 by Storey Books

Really the wording alone should tip you off that the brothers Fisher are assclowns who dont know what they are talking about. "tend to attract"? seriously? what? do the little bacterias spot the malting grain from high above with their microscopic highly sensitive bacteria eyes and zoom down on their little bacteria wings?
Bacteria dont "attract" at least not from distances greater than can be placed on a microscope slide... they are either present or they are not, you either create conditions where they can grow or you dont.
Oh and did I mention that "butryfying" isn't a real word?
Oh and those deadly "butyl isomers" they mention are a group of alcohols known collectively as butanol that are one of the components of "fusil oils" present to some extent in virtually all beer and largely removed from distilled spirits by making good cuts and multiple distillations.

[Dnderhead]

Ergot is more likely to be in small "garden" where repeated replanting of the same crop.it will also grow on other grains like wheat,rye.
if infected grain is placed in a water bath the Ergot infected grain will float.thus can be removed by skimming.

[Tater]

Anybody ever seen Ergot with their own eyes ?

[Steep-n-Rocky]

This is an interesting thread. It appears that no one can document any problems with ergot developing in the malting process. Rather it seems that the ergot would most likely be present in the grain harvested from the field. Given that most us do not harvest our grain from the field but rather buy from grain producers on the look out for ergot, my conclusion is that we should be safe malting at home. I use rye w/o malting for bourbon, etc. and never give it a second thought.

[warr87]

I use this for malting. There are 2 PET bottles of 10 liters one over the other. The upper one has a perforated bottom and the air is pumped with a 2W aquarium pump. It sprouts very nice and uniform.

I don't know if anyone else is interested, but how is this setup? i would like to try rye whisky and malting.

[Rachiu]

This is the scheme of the germinator

[jake_leg]

Never seen anything like that before, I am interested. How do you dry the malt Rachiu?

[Rachiu]

I don't dry it , I use it "green"... green malt. There are some reasons for using it fresh, not just commodity.
I grind the sprouted grain with meat grinder and turn it into a paste. I add the paste to a decoction at certain temperatures for liquefaction and saccharification. I keep a small amount of malt paste to add with yeast. The green malt is richer in gluco-amylase than dry malt because some of the enzyme is denatured during drying. The green wheat malt is more rich in gluco-amylase.
The gluco-amylase brakes the maltose giving glucose and ease the work of yeast.
Also, it hydrolyses the 1,6-alfa-glucosidic bonds breaking limit dextrins and giving better attenuation and better final yield.

[jake_leg]

Interestinger and interestinger. How does the green malt taste?

[Rachiu]

Green malted barley? like cucumbers salad
Green malted wheat, like grass or something.
With rye or oats is a bit more difficult because it must be well washed and aerated, otherwise it will attract putrefying bacteria. I tried once but I not liked the smell.

[Rachiu]

I used it for saccharification of this:
Now I wait for full conversion. It became fluid and sweet.

[Fourway]

"attract putrefying bacteria

Yeah...
um...
no.

nothing "attracts bacteria"

it's either present or it's not.
you either create conditions that promote it's growth or you dont.

The phrase "attract butrifying bacteria" is used in the Homebrewers Garden (an oft cited compendium of completely made up hogwash).
So good on you recognizing that "butrifying" isn't a word and correcting it but you are still repeating misinformation.
Any grain that you germinate and sprout with hulls on (like oats) will be more prone to spoilage and infection for obvious reasons.
You just need to be more on top of keeping it aired out and rinsed.

[jake_leg]

What's that? It looks like squash soup.

Thanks for the pictures. I'm thinking I could try that malting set up with a couple of old 5 gallon polycarbonate water bottles. Polycarbonate is perhaps not the ideal material but they are big and available for free.

[warr87]

This is the scheme of the germinator

Awesome. Thanks for that. Looks like a simple solution for malting rye at home.

[Rachiu]

What's that? It looks like squash soup.

Thanks for the pictures. I'm thinking I could try that malting set up with a couple of old 5 gallon polycarbonate water bottles. Polycarbonate is perhaps not the ideal material but they are big and available for free.

It's cornmeal mash
Your idea is great. I will use the polycarbonate bottles too. I think there is very little contact with plastic and no BPA could leach. I advise to seal somehow the bottles (maybe silicone) and the air will not escape through the gap between bottles. It must be forced to pass through the grain layer.
I think, with the 5 gallon bottles you will sprout up to 8 kg grains. It's pretty hard to take out the sprouted grains. They will hook together, but works well with a fork
How do you grind the green malt? With my meat grinder is terribly hard and slow. I search for a better idea.

[Dnderhead]

this will or wont work depending where you are.in cooler regions it works in more tropical no.
about 60-65f should be maintained and with it enclosed, grains stacked,not stirred it tends to mold/rot.
a small amount of chlorine in water will help.

[Rachiu]

If you wash it often it will not mold/rot. I made a sprinkle from a bottle, puncturing the lid wit a hot needle. I wet the grains multiple times per day. Tap water has some chlorine in it. Sprouted grains are very fresh and tasty and no strange or bad smell will form.
I have a cold climate here in winters but the temp rises quite well in summers (up to 38-40*C). In winter, the temperature drops below -20 degrees celsius. In my house is about 4*C (40*F) but the sprouting works well because some heat is built up during germination. You can feel the heat if you touch the bottle. I think the heat is proportional with amount of grains, like the fermentation does. I don't know what happens at higher temperatures, my house never exceeds 24*C (75*F) in summer because is a basement and is cooler in summers but warmer in winters.
In winter I need to help the rising temperature of the fermentation bath putting some light bulbs under the tank, putting some fire bricks around it and cover with something thermo-insulating material, even blankets or coats. Thus, the fermentation bath stays around 20*C. Otherwise the fermentation stops due to low temperature.

[Dnderhead]

" If you wash it often it will not mold/rot'
thats going to be a bit hard when its in a bottle.

[Rachiu]

You have to cut the top of the bottle as I do.
Otherwise you will never get the stacked grains within the bottle. They hook very tight all together.
Anyway, I think is far much better idea than making malting floors in our narrow apartments.
I also think this can be used as malting floor. But putting some gauze on the shelfs