Inline Thumper idea

[Fjard]

I have been lurking for awhile doing my homework. So I finually decided to join in the chitchat and toss around some ideas.

LWTCS inspired me to try and plan out a inline thumper for my 1/2 bbl sanke keg that is electrically heated. What I want to do is take one of the 1/4 bbl sanke keg and converting it. I have access to a rubberized 1/4 bbl sanke that I can remove the skirts from for this project. What I plan on doing is flipping the sanke over and use a 2 inch Triclamp T or union to connect my 1/2 bbl sanke to 1/4 bbl sanke. Reuse the spear from the 1/4 bbl sanke to make a standpipe inside that stands above the 1/2 way mark and come up with some kind of cap. Then I want to plumb a 1 inch drain line from the half way mark of the 1/4 bbl sanke that makes a P trap that dumps into the triclamp extision or T. Then on the bottom (now the top) I want to cutout a hole and weld on a 4 inch triclamp fitting for attaching a column to.

Here is a picture to help see what I am attempting to explain:


Some questions:
1) is the 1 inch diam of the sanke spear to small for the stand pipe? I imagine at full throttle it'll be like a steam jet and would have to figure out a way to keep the cap down. I am trying to recycle what I have my scrape pile before buying new parts.
2) I spoke to LWTCS about the drain pipe, he suggested if he did it over he would gone bigger then what he has done (1/2 inch) cause he drowned his system, think 1 inch would help?
3) what would be suggested I do for a cap that won't launch itself up into the column?

I am sure I have more ideas and questions but I had to get this onto paper before I start forgetting it all.

[Kiwikeg]

nice design. I am looking at somthing similar but am now going to have steal some of your design.
I am going to fix my stand pipe cap to the stand pipe or use a j-bend to force more bubbling.

[jake_leg]

Looks like you have got the main features right.

There are various ways of attaching the bubble cap but yes it does need to be fixed on somehow.

It's a nice thought to reuse the spear in this way but my first thought would be that it would be a bit narrow and might puke.

[Prairiepiss]

Looks like you have got the main features right.

There are various ways of attaching the bubble cap but yes it does need to be fixed on somehow.

It's a nice thought to reuse the spear in this way but my first thought would be that it would be a bit narrow and might puke.

Why does the bubble cap need to be fixed? Look at LWTCS thumper. It's not?

But I would agree. Go bigger with the stand pipe. I would go 2" with at least a 3" bubble cap. 3.5" bubble cap mite be better.

3/4" is what I plan to use as a drain in mine. And yes I'm going to do something very similar.

[LWTCS]

My bubble cap is 3/16 x 3 square tubing. With a 3/16 peice of square plate weldedAs the top of the "cap". It rests on the floor of the thumper and does a nice little dance as temps settle in.
I like that you want to re-pupose tbe spear and the extra vapor speed may promote some good mingling. The added speed/pressure may launch your cap ddpending on weight if you dont afix it to the stand pipe. Give it a go and just be prepaired to make a correction..

[myles]

You have several options for fixing the cap to the standpipe but 1 of the easiest IMO for this specific application, as you could get in the 4" hole but don't have huge access - is a simple cotter pin.



Cut your standpipe to leave 2 lugs to stick through 2 small holes in the cap. Each lug has a hole drilled in it to accept a pin or bit of copper wire. Just slot the cap onto the lugs, poke the pin through the holes and bend up the free end to secure it. I would just drill 3/8" holes round the top of the riser, but you could cut out 2 rectangular holes if you wished.

[Prairiepiss]

I love how ideas flow on the table sometimes.

Another thought I have been kicking around. Is to build the bubble cap assembly with a male pipe thread on the bottom. And a female on the bottom of the thump keg. So it can be screwed in from the top opening. I was thinking more along the open top like larry's but could work here. I thought about this so you could use the thumper as a fill funnel for the boiler. But I realize it would be a pita to thread the inlet of the keg. But maybe someone else reading this mite get an idea from it. I'm still considering it myself.

[Fjard]

You have several options for fixing the cap to the standpipe but 1 of the easiest IMO for this specific application, as you could get in the 4" hole but don't have huge access - is a simple cotter pin.



Cut your standpipe to leave 2 lugs to stick through 2 small holes in the cap. Each lug has a hole drilled in it to accept a pin or bit of copper wire. Just slot the cap onto the lugs, poke the pin through the holes and bend up the free end to secure it. I would just drill 3/8" holes round the top of the riser, but you could cut out 2 rectangular holes if you wished.

I thought about this, but with the amount of potential pressure coming out the 1 inch tubing that cap will rock back and forth and bump up and down which will wear out the pin or the tabs....

Another solution would be drill several vent holes around the top for an inch or two of length, then weld (say a 2 inch disk) then weld a 2" sleeve to the cap ...

end result less moving parts = less wear and tear..

[Fjard]

Looks like you have got the main features right.

There are various ways of attaching the bubble cap but yes it does need to be fixed on somehow.

It's a nice thought to reuse the spear in this way but my first thought would be that it would be a bit narrow and might puke.

Why does the bubble cap need to be fixed? Look at LWTCS thumper. It's not?

But I would agree. Go bigger with the stand pipe. I would go 2" with at least a 3" bubble cap. 3.5" bubble cap mite be better.

3/4" is what I plan to use as a drain in mine. And yes I'm going to do something very similar.

I don't think he ment fix as in not able to move... but rather secured so it doesn't come off the standpipe

[Prairiepiss]

Good point?

[Fjard]

Good point?

Dunno, is it?


As for the drain pipe/P trap.. I think I am going to head down to the local stores that builds rails and canapies for sail boats and see if they could form me a P trape out of some 1" tubing... I imagine they can do it in 5 minutes ... figure I can have the arms a tad bit long so I can trim down when I actually commit to the build.

[snowboybrown7]

I haven't built it yet, but this is my plan.

The 3/4" drain/downcomer feeds into the standpipe, then drains back to the boiler. I realize the cup walls should extend lower.

You shouldn't need to solder the connection inside the cap, between the drain and stand. Keep it tight, but vapour bubbling through at that point is really just normal operation, right?

Screen Shot 2012-03-15 at 10.06.20 AM.png

[Kiwikeg]

I haven't built it yet, but this is my plan.

The 3/4" drain/downcomer feeds into the standpipe, then drains back to the boiler. I realize the cup walls should extend lower.

You shouldn't need to solder the connection inside the cap, between the drain and stand. Keep it tight, but vapour bubbling through at that point is really just normal operation, right?

Screen Shot 2012-03-15 at 10.06.20 AM.png

the problem i see here is wouldnt the vapour bypass the bubble cap and go through the downcomer instead with this setup?

[Fjard]

as drawn yes, the drain needs to have a P trap so liquid can act like a vapor block.

[myles]

What you have drawn would work in principle if the dimensions were changed. You just need to ensure that the height of the vertical section of the downcommer that is inside the standpipe is greater. Provided the depth of liquid in the trap is more than that held on the plate, then the easiest path for the vapour is through the bubble cap.

[LWTCS]

What you have drawn would work in principle if the dimensions were changed. You just need to ensure that the height of the vertical section of the downcommer that is inside the standpipe is greater. Provided the depth of liquid in the trap is more than that held on the plate, then the easiest path for the vapour is through the bubble cap.

+1
MacStill Has engineer'd his this way.

[Fjard]

Got the 1/4bbl in yesterday and go the ferrule installed and welded today. It is leveled and flush to the top skirt/rim (was bottom) and there is plenty of room to work the triclamp clamp.



will work on the rest as the pieces come in.

fjard

[Fjard]

Decided to use copper on the drain arm. Wielded a 1" SS half-coupler to side of the pony keg and plumbed to fit to the Tee fitting, which has a 1" NPT x 2" Triclamp cap. I also added a union so I can take it all apart if need be. Next part is my to do list is the standpipe.

[LWTCS]

Not sure I understand. Some dialog please.

[Fjard]

The picture is actually of the thumper upside down, cooling after soldering. I was originally going to use stainless for the drain (the copper part) but copper was actually cheaper locally (found a sale).

What I have done so far:
- Drilled with a hole sale a 4" hole on the bottom of the keg, fit and weld a 4" Triclamp ferrule.
- Drilled a hole on the side of the keg at mid level to fit a 1" half coupler and welded it in. This is for my overflow drain
- Sweated toghter copper fittings (elbows, union, street elbows, etc) to form my P trap Going from the 1" half coupler to the Sanitary Tee fetting
- Sanitary Tee fitting connects the two kegs via 2" Triclamp, on the side arm of the Tee, I clamped a 2" Triclamp x 1"NPT end cap and threaded the drain pipe to it.

Hope that makes better sense.

I'll get a pic of it all together and post it. I haven't worked on the "standpipe"/uptube/whatever you wanna call it. I am thinking of trying to find a way to grind out the connector on the keg so it can accept a length of 2" sanitary tubing (only need to grind two tenths of an inch + the lower lip) but haven't figure out that part yet.

[Fjard]

Looks lopsided but it isn't

[Kiwikeg]

I am thinking of trying to find a way to grind out the connector on the keg so it can accept a length of 2" sanitary tubing (only need to grind two tenths of an inch + the lower lip) but haven't figure out that part yet.

get a 2" blu mol or starett holesaw drill thru a thickish piece of wood- this is your guide as you wont be able to use pilot drill. clamp guide over connector and carefullt ream out connector with 2'' hole saw
if you have a drill press big enougth you can drill it with the holesaw without using the wood template for a guide.

[Fjard]

To give a better idea of my over all build... I ended up taking the sanke coupler and grinding out the inner part so I can swage in a 1.5" tubing in (~8 inches long) and had the local welder weld it in place. Sorry no picture of that, but will have one when I start working on the cap.



I am going to had some kind of brace between the kegs to stablize it more, there is alot of pressure on that 2" Tee fitting and prolly the weakest link. Thinking of some kind of clamp that spreads instead of squeezes (prolly three?)

[Fjard]

Side view of stand pipe

Bottom view of the weld to the sanke female connector

Side view of cap

Top view of cap (you can see the hole I have for securing it)

Stand pipe installed with retaining clip

Inside view of stand pipe with cap

[WV Shine]

Looking great Fjard... that's a pretty nice hunk of stainless

[Fjard]

Thanks, just a few more things and it will be all done and over with

[Azframer]

Just a matter of time before I get a rig like that soon payment for the design work I have been doing on those parts and many more coming down the pipe line now.

[granddad]

My bubble cap is 3/16 x 3 square tubing. With a 3/16 peice of square plate weldedAs the top of the "cap". It rests on the floor of the thumper and does a nice little dance as temps settle in.
I like that you want to re-pupose tbe spear and the extra vapor speed may promote some good mingling. The added speed/pressure may launch your cap ddpending on weight if you dont afix it to the stand pipe. Give it a go and just be prepaired to make a correction..

granddad here question on my bubbler i have is 3/16 sq w 3/16 flat plate welded x8 tall on your video i can hear your bubbeler dance what size heating element do you run & how tall is your 3/16 bubbel cap ? i am runing 4500 watts @240 volt it takes me right at a 1.1/4 hr to heat up mine just dose a slight dance very quiet /my bubbel cap inside mesurment is 8'' my bubbel tube is 8'' it works fine but yours has a nice sound to it the other factor is my thumper has only ran one time& i only had 3'' of wort in it do you get more sound as thumper has more liquid in it ??? let me know thanks granddad

[LWTCS]

My feeling is the sound / dance comes as the run settles in towards the middle to end of the hearts as the boiler temps start to push higher...
Not so sure that the cap measurements really have the same influence on the dance.

[granddad]

My feeling is the sound / dance comes as the run settles in towards the middle to end of the hearts as the boiler temps start to push higher...
Not so sure that the cap measurements really have the same influence on the dance.

granddad here thanks when i ran mine the other day it was a littel noiseier in the begining but i will listen closer on 2nd run thanks larry