Need Assistance.

[WalkingTall]

Hello Mentors,

I have finally made a profile on here though I have been using this forum as a reference guide for years.I have recently started attempting to run and create some "rheumatism medicine" through a turnip still.While I have read alot on this site I often find myself miffed by some of the terminology. If possible I would like some advice on how to better the quality of my output.So heres what I have been up to.
My Mash: 30 lbs cornmeal,30 lbs sugar,40 gallons purified water.1 jar of fleischman highly active yeast
I put cornmeal in my 55 gallon barrel,all of it.I add 20 gallons of water and stir with wooden paddle till cornmeal absorbs the water and starts to congeal.
Next I add my sugar,then the rest of the water, again I stir as to blend ingredients and dissolve sugar,I pitch my yeast maybe 5 tablespoons or so.I mix again this time bottom to top to ensure everything is mixed.I cover barrel with bedsheet,tie of with a rope and leave alone.I let it work for 7 days it bubbles and pops like the dickens.
I run 10 gallons of mash at a time through my stil(as that is all it holds at once)l.when Im done I end up with about 5 gallons of "rheumatism" medicine.Now this is where my problem comes in.
The shine I am collecting has a slightly odd odor.without cuts or blending.from the head through the hearts to the tails has the dreaded wet cardboard odor I have read about multiple times on this forum.The stuff is strong.Will get you drunk as a skunk.but the odor is my main concern.Also when I run it.It is clear but with a slightly white hugh barely visible but you can notice it isnt crystal clear.and to my last concern I have the pleasure of being from eastern tennessee and had the pleasure of enjoying some of popcorns finest.In his you could taste the sweetness of the corn even through the over bearing rocket fuel moonshine flavor.I know this man was a legend and cAnnot expect to duplicate such a spectacular product with such a piss poor mash recipe but I wanna get close.I have read tried and true upside down and saw the u.j.s.m. as well as others,when popcorn ran his still he was cooking his mash almost whole corn kernels floating in it and all,which on this site was said to be bad because of scorching ....however seems like all the big guys do it espicially when using submarine pots.it is fermented and cooked within the same vessel.I just want someone who has ran a ton of it,to tell me how to improve recipe,get rid of bad smell,and improve clarity as well as output.Again I apologize for the long post,and I thank you for your time,
WalkingTall

[Usge]

WT just to clarify...you are single running (one time through the still) and are making no cuts?

Is that right?

[WalkingTall]

I have been single running.

[WalkingTall]

I havent been making cuts.I just toss the foreshots,I collect the end of the heads straight through to the hearts, to the beginnings of the tails.I use dead eye method to gauge proof.Number the jars 1-10 according to strength.I have been throwing my tails back into my pot along with fresh mash,and been running that way.for 55 gallons I use my still 5 times as it only holds 10 gallons at a time.Are you suggesting doubling back? like pitching all of first run back in with fresh mash?

[NcHooch]

Sounds like you may be runnin it a touch too hard, and smearing the tails into the hearts ....that would sorta agree with the slight cloudy hue that you mentioned .

Usge, didn't mention it outright, but you might wanna try doing a spirit run with that 5 gallons, dilute it below 40 percent , run nice n slow and see what you end up with.

[Usge]

Single run you have to run very slowly or you'll get an odor (just like low-wines). It could be you ran it a bit hard on the first run just like NC hooch said. Yes, you can try mixing low-wines and wash till you come up with some variance of it that you like. You can also take what you run that smells and throw it back in with some water and run it. It'll come out cleaner than a whistle, but you'll loose a good bit of flavor too.

You also mentioned recylcing tails...so could have just been a combo of the 2 (running too hard and having a lot of tail/oils in it). That'l make cloudy for sure. Run it real easy next time and don't put so much tails in it to start. See if that doesn't at least change things up a bit.

As far as the turnip still goes...just make sure the ole gal is clean. I've seen some posts where guys had some build up in the top of their keg...that they just were not getting clean. If you are using any copper mesh anywhere, pull it and make sure it's not full of gunk from tails. Normally, you should expect to simply give it a good rinse with hot water between runs. But, you "can" pickup excessive odor from a dirty still. So, it's just something to check.

Popcorn used to run a 200 gallon pot. At that size, there is so much liquid/volume area compared to copper, that even a wide, propane/gas driven flame wouldn't scorch it. Your 10-15 gallon pot would be different in that regard. They also used to stir it until it came to a boil (starting releasing vapor) and then capped it. I think dnder described it as.."standing on a plank on top of the boiler stirring with a stir stick or paddle till it came to a boil, or your arms fell off, which ever came first". If you are using external heat source (not an internal element) it's still possible to run on-the-grain). You just have to be careful, and not use too much heat with a smaller boiler. Let it come up easy and don't push it too hard.


Guys: boda and wc, this is the "mentors" forum for one-on-one help. You'll have to wait till Wtall takes his piccies over to My Still forum to do yer droolin'

[WalkingTall]

By spirit run do you mean take all my collected shine from the first run,throw it into my still dilluted with water,then run and collect? what should be the water to shine ratio? also when people say double runs I am pitching my first run of shine with fresh mash together in my pot,leaving about one gallon of backset or "wort" as they say and filling the rest with my aformentioned ingredients? I just wanna be double sure I am now officially obsessed with my new "hobby" and am looking to improve.Thank you everyone for taking time out to answer all of my questions and as soon as Im done welding I will post pics of my new 50 gallon all copper still

WalkingTall

[Usge]

WT, you can run whatever makes you happy in your still. Lots of people mix mash/beer and singlings together. You can add water if you want. The gist to understand is that the starting abv of whatever your still charge is, determines what proof your mixture will start coming over. It also is part of how much total yield you get.

A double run is performed thusly: fill your still with freshly fermented beer from mash/wash and run it off hard and fast down to the nub with no cuts (some people still take foreshots cut). If you have leftover tails from other runs...this is the time to put them in. This first run is to make "low-wines". It's basically a volume reducing run, which clears the mash to higher proof low-wines. So, you start with 10 gallons of 10%, cloudy wash/mash and you end up with 2 to 2.5 gallons of clear 30-35%. Since it's simply a volume reducing run...you can save time, run it off hard and fast. When you've done this enough times to charge your still, then you do a 2nd run on the low-wines. This is your spirit run, and it's done more carefully, (slower) taking cuts, etc. The results is a lighter spirit...that will also be higher in proof. You'll probably come off with an average of 140-150 proof on your turnip head....compared to 110-120 for single runs. And there will be more of it.

That said WT, the "Flavor" is where it's at. So, lots of people mix the two together in various ways when doing that 2nd/spirit run. You can use fresh mash and low-wines, etc. Adding water, will reduce the starting proof and make it smoother, but less flavorful. So, the trick is in finding that ratio/procedure that you like that produces the drink you want. There aren't any hard fast rules for that.

[WalkingTall]

Thank you boss,
I will utilize the initial hard and fast with the subsequent slow and low method the next time I rum my turnip.(isn't it funny we use the same terminology's for making liqour and making love?)But that thouroughly explained it for me.Thank you,

WalkingTall