Rum Yeast

[HookLine]

Another question for you who uses internal heating source. Have you done rum with your apparatus?

All my stilling is done with an internal element, and maybe half is rum.

The color of the wash is not clear because of the black-strap.

Clearing refers to removing solids, not making it colourless. It will never be clear like water. Will be 'clear' like tea or coffee that has been left to sit for a while so all the solids sink to the bottom.

Will this get to the heating element and burn it?

Not if the ferment has fully finished, and you clear the finished ferment ('wash') well.

No bubbles and no sweetness means it is finished.

Let it sit for 2-3 days after the bubbling has stopped. Drain off the 'clear' liquid leaving the sediment behind on the bottom.

My rum ferments typically take about 7-8 days from start to ready to run through the still.

[alex-76]

Another question for you who uses internal heating source. Have you done rum with your apparatus?

All my stilling is done with an internal element, and maybe half is rum.

The color of the wash is not clear because of the black-strap.

Clearing refers to removing solids, not making it colourless. It will never be clear like water. Will be 'clear' like tea or coffee that has been left to sit for a while so all the solids sink to the bottom.

Will this get to the heating element and burn it?

Not if the ferment has fully finished, and you clear the finished ferment ('wash') well.

No bubbles and no sweetness means it is finished.

Let it sit for 2-3 days after the bubbling has stopped. Drain off the 'clear' liquid leaving the sediment behind on the bottom.

My rum ferments typically take about 7-8 days from start to ready to run through the still.

Thanks for your advice!

Well i have burned my heating element with grains. yes, it was not strained very well.

I'm just concerned that it will burn on the element. My wash has been resting for a week since it stopped the fermenting stage. I have let it stay and let it settle to the bottom. i saw how thick it was, and i read that people use this for the next wash. Do you do the same?
i have over a gallon of that stuff.

it looks like coffee, and yes, it wont look clear at all. it does smell good tho.

Thanks!

Alex-76

[HookLine]

My wash has been resting for a week since it stopped the fermenting stage. I have let it stay and let it settle to the bottom. i saw how thick it was, and i read that people use this for the next wash. Do you do the same?

I usually recycle some to provide extra nutrients for the next ferment. Just leave some in there add the other ingredients (molasses, sugar, etc), and add hot dunder (backset) to dissolve and sterilise it all.

I always add fresh active yeast (after the ferment mix has cooled, of course). I use plain bakers yeast and it does not restart so well as other yeast, so I just add new stuff.

[alex-76]

Thanks!

Yes, in my new wash i will use backers yeast, i will add whatever was at the bottom.
Last time i used K1-v1116 and i'm happy with the result.
First i have to distill it and then taste it.

I hope it goes well.

[King Of Hearts]

Thanks!

Yes, in my new wash i will use backers yeast, i will add whatever was at the bottom.
Last time i used K1-v1116 and i'm happy with the result.
First i have to distill it and then taste it.

I hope it goes well.

Stuff on the bottom is unfermentable molasses and yeast.

[alex-76]

Thanks!

Yes, in my new wash i will use backers yeast, i will add whatever was at the bottom.
Last time i used K1-v1116 and i'm happy with the result.
First i have to distill it and then taste it.

I hope it goes well.

Stuff on the bottom is unfermentable molasses and yeast.

so i can use that for the next wash?
i wont harm the new wash? i'm keeping it cold in the refer.

[King Of Hearts]

Thanks!

Yes, in my new wash i will use backers yeast, i will add whatever was at the bottom.
Last time i used K1-v1116 and i'm happy with the result.
First i have to distill it and then taste it.

I hope it goes well.

Stuff on the bottom is unfermentable molasses and yeast.

so i can use that for the next wash?
i wont harm the new wash? i'm keeping it cold in the refer.

You can but you'll mix the yeast. If you want to try the bakers then no.

[alex-76]

Thanks!

Yes, in my new wash i will use backers yeast, i will add whatever was at the bottom.
Last time i used K1-v1116 and i'm happy with the result.
First i have to distill it and then taste it.

I hope it goes well.

Stuff on the bottom is unfermentable molasses and yeast.

so i can use that for the next wash?
i wont harm the new wash? i'm keeping it cold in the refer.

You can but you'll mix the yeast. If you want to try the bakers then no.

So, you are saying that, if i used k1-V1116 I cannot add the remaining sugar and yeast at the bottom of the bucket is the new wash?
f i'm going to be using Bakers yeast, i cannot mix it with KV1-v1116 remaining yeast and sugar?
Am i correct?
If so, why is this?

[Prairiepiss]

If you do as hook said and add boiled dunder to the fermenter. And it kill the remaining yeast. The new yeast you pitch will use it for nutrients

[alex-76]

If you do as hook said and add boiled dunder to the fermenter. And it kill the remaining yeast. The new yeast you pitch will use it for nutrients

I see, you kill the K1-v1116 because bakers yeast are not the same. So the dead yeast from K1-v1116 will function as bakers yeast nutrients. Am i right?

Do you know why you cannot mix K1-V1116 with bakers Yeast?
Just curiosity.

[King Of Hearts]

If you do as hook said and add boiled dunder to the fermenter. And it kill the remaining yeast. The new yeast you pitch will use it for nutrients

I see, you kill the K1-v1116 because bakers yeast are not the same. So the dead yeast from K1-v1116 will function as bakers yeast nutrients. Am i right?

Do you know why you cannot mix K1-V1116 with bakers Yeast?
Just curiosity.

You can if thats what you want.

[Dnderhead]

k1-v1116 is "killer" it will dominate the wash/mash..

[rtalbigr]

k1-v1116 is "killer" it will dominate the wash/mash..

Killer yeasts secrete proteins that actually kill other yeast strains. While some yeasts will work in combination a killer yeast won't.

Big R

[alex-76]

wow, how cool. i didn't know that.

Well, i'm not sure if i should change yeast. i do want to make some changes in the quantities of black strap and whole cane sugar.
If i change the yeast it could change the flavor, for sure.
So i don't know.

[pope]

Try different strains of yeast on the same recipe and do some side-by-side comparisons to see what you like. I'm sure you'll taste a difference. If you want to switch and you want to buy a large quantity of yeast, you might try the Danstil EDV 493 as King of Hearts mentioned. Kiwi has sworn by this strain for rum, and since it's been isolated from cane molasses, it should do the trick. Whenever I finally try fermenting molasses again, I plan on ordering a 500g brick from White Labs to give it a try.

[Dnderhead]

you can buy large quantities of most yeast,brew shops dont carry it that way because they cater to home brewers and no home brewers uses it that way.yeast is package to fit the ferment,so if doing a 5 gallon,500gallon,or 5000 gallon ferments the yeast is packaged to "fit". some brew shops cater to both home brewers and commercial .

[King Of Hearts]

Has anyone tried to buy Danstil EDV 493 from Whitelabs or other distillers yeast smaller than 500g?

[pope]

I signed up for an account with White Labs to buy yeast and I've spoken with a few people at White Labs, unfortunately they don't sell smaller than 500g.

Most yeasts sell for $30-$40 on their store (yeastman.com), plus shipping. Also, it's not listed on their site, but they do also sell an AG line of yeasts for Rum, Vodka, and Whiskey. I asked about those too, this is the description:

"Rum AG: Osmophilic Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain especially suited to 50:50 blend of molasses and sucrose fermentations to 15%abv. Contains complete nutrition for rapid fermentation. Producing full, rich fruity aromatics and includes amylo glucosidase enzyme for breaking longer sugar chains and optimum yield.

Vodka AG: High yield Vodka Strain with extra-ordinarily low metabolite production ideal for use with sugar, grain or potato feedstock in Vodka production. Provides complete nutrition for easy fermentation of low-nutrition washes together with amylo glucosidase enzyme for dextrins conversion.

Whiskey AG: Pure culture Whiskey Strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae used widely in commercial whiskey, with robust and authentic aromatics even in high-alcohol fermentations. Includes the advantage of complete nutrition and amylo glucosidase. This enables both complete dextrin conversion of malt or grain for maximum yield as well as rapid fermentation to 15% abv. - very high for standard whiskey "low beers"."

The email also described a turbo yeast that sounds a lot less interesting:

"TY48: High performance temperature and ethanol tolerant yeast capable of reaching 20%abv from pure sugar wash in 8 days. With AG enzyme to allow starch based feedstock after normal gellatination and alpha amylase treatment."

These are sold in 1kg packets for $26, $29, $38, and $17, respectively, plus shipping and tax if you're in California. Danstil EDV 493 is $40. I've conceded to myself that this hobby is not about saving money, and have since accepted spending $40 for a quart of dry yeast. Honestly though if you stick to one strain, at a pitching rate of 1g/lb, you might just get through it expires.

I guess that was kind of a long-winded way to say 'yes' to your question.

[pope]

I wonder if White Labs will give me a commission...

[King Of Hearts]

Oh, this sounds familar.

Our Rum Distillery Yeast is an Osmophilic Saccharomyces Cerevisiae strain especially suited to 50:50 blend of molasses and sucrose fermentations to 15%ABV. Contains complete nutrition for rapid fermentation. Producing full, rich fruity aromatics, it also includes amyloglucosidase enzyme for breaking longer-chain sugars for optimum yield.

http://stillspirits.com/us/findaretailer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Brew & Grow started carrying Still Spirits but it's the turbo high alc yeast . I should ask if they can order rum or whiskey yeast.

[pope]

Okay so we're obviously talking about the same product here. I'll probably buy both 493 and the Rum AG from White Labs next time I try fermenting molasses, and do some side-by-side comparisons. I wish they sold more of their liquid yeast strains by the vial (especially the Tennessee Whiskey strain), although they do sell Lactobacillus delbrueckii and some of their other bacterial strains by the vial, which is nice. I still have to try lactic souring of the yeast mash in cereal fermentations, but that's a whole other topic.

[King Of Hearts]

Okay so we're obviously talking about the same product here. I'll probably buy both 493 and the Rum AG from White Labs next time I try fermenting molasses, and do some side-by-side comparisons. I wish they sold more of their liquid yeast strains by the vial (especially the Tennessee Whiskey strain), although they do sell Lactobacillus delbrueckii and some of their other bacterial strains by the vial, which is nice. I still have to try lactic souring of the yeast mash in cereal fermentations, but that's a whole other topic.

I think Whitelabs makes Still Spirits yeast which is sold at Homebrew stores. Go to Still Spirits site and look for a retailer.

[alex-76]

So for my first run, it went good.

not as i wanted but i learned a lot. I will try my rum soon, and will hold on the rum because i really want to try to make some vodka.

See how that goes.

Alex

[RipleyCountyYankee]

Alex,

I've been using Fleischmans and Redstar bakers yeast in Hook Rum with good results. Around here a two pound bag of bakers yeast is about 5.00 at Sams or GFS. No offense to Mr Hook, but I tweaked his receipe slightly to use local ingredients. I have never had a stalled ferment yet and we think it tastes pretty good. The first wash used hot water and one tablespoon of citric acid. The last 5 washes used the dunder receipe below. Ferments out in about a week. I let it set another week and then rack it into the boiler and go. Been getting a little over 4 gal of low wines out of each 17 gal wash..

2 - gal black strap molasses - GFS is 13.00/gal
12 - pounds sugar - Sams Club/GFS/Walmart
3 - tablespoons tomato paste (for nutrient) - Walmart has real small cans for like .44
1/2 pound bakers yeast (for nutrient)
10 - Gal HOT dunder
cold clean well water to fill up to 17 gal total
Stir and aerate using a paint stirrer attached to an electric drill and let temp to drop below 90 deg F.

Aerate and stir again when it's cooled off, then pitch 1/2 pound yeast while it's swirling in the fermenter.
Cover loosely and wait.

Thanks,

RCY...

[King Of Hearts]

I think your way over pitching yeast. Go to mrmalty.com and take a look. Over pitching can be as bad as under pitching. If its dry yeast you only need 40 grams.

[RipleyCountyYankee]

King,

The tried and true receipe says 150g of bakers yeast which is 1/3 lb. I've been using roughly .1 gal more molasses, 1 lb more sugar, and 1 gal water more than the receipe called for so I figured the extra 75g yeast fit in about right. The MrMalty calculator does show much smaller amounts of dry yeast though they are geared towards beer ie.. ale (32g) Hybrid (42g) or lager (64g). I'm not sure how that relates to Rum. I've read elsewhere on this site that a little extra yeast provides extra flavor in Rum washes and so far that seems to be true. Is it the yeast used for the nutrient that is the issue or is it the yeast that is pitched ?

Thank You,

RCY,

[King Of Hearts]

King,

The tried and true receipe says 150g of bakers yeast which is 1/3 lb. I've been using roughly .1 gal more molasses, 1 lb more sugar, and 1 gal water more than the receipe called for so I figured the extra 75g yeast fit in about right. The MrMalty calculator does show much smaller amounts of dry yeast though they are geared towards beer ie.. ale (32g) Hybrid (42g) or lager (64g). I'm not sure how that relates to Rum. I've read elsewhere on this site that a little extra yeast provides extra flavor in Rum washes and so far that seems to be true. Is it the yeast used for the nutrient that is the issue or is it the yeast that is pitched ?

Thank You,

RCY,

What was the starting gravity? Just as an example, I made 11 gals of 1.080 bourbon mash and only pitched 2 oz of Redstar fresh cake yeast and it fermented to 1.000 Yeast doesn't care what the sugar source is, if the conditions are right, cell amounts, nutrients, ph, temp, it will still consume it. It is generally better to have higher pitch rates than lower pitch rates.

High pitch rates can lead to:
Very low ester production
Very fast fermentations
Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel
Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)

A low pitch rate can lead to:
Excess levels of diacetyl
Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation
Increase in ester formation
Increase in volatile sulfur compounds
High terminal gravities
Stuck fermentations
Increased risk of infection

[RipleyCountyYankee]

King,

No idea. Never tried the hydrometer on Hook Rum because the recipe says "A hydrometer is not much use on a molasses wash, as the unfermentable solids in molasses gives false high readings. Just go by weights and volumes for the ferment mix."

I have not tried Pint-O-Shines molasses wash or the Pugi Rum in the tried and true yet, but they also call for 1 cup (146g) of dry yeast for nutrient and 1 cup for pitching in the roughly the same volume of wash.

I'm trying to follow the proven recipes fairly close for now. Six runs of Hook Rum is the extent of my experience at this point with 3 gallon on oak. It is coloring up and smelling/tasting pretty good so far after 36 days now.

One of these days I will try the sweet feed recipe which calls for 1 tablespoon (9.4g) dry yeast per 6 gallons. This is much closer to the rates you refer to, but the ingredients and end product are not the same. Don't have a huge amount of experience at this point so I can't say "why" there is such a difference in the quantity of yeast between these products, but I'm sure there's a reason.

Thank You,

RCY

[King Of Hearts]

King,

No idea. Never tried the hydrometer on Hook Rum because the recipe says "A hydrometer is not much use on a molasses wash, as the unfermentable solids in molasses gives false high readings. Just go by weights and volumes for the ferment mix."

I have not tried Pint-O-Shines molasses wash or the Pugi Rum in the tried and true yet, but they also call for 1 cup (146g) of dry yeast for nutrient and 1 cup for pitching in the roughly the same volume of wash.

I'm trying to follow the proven recipes fairly close for now. Six runs of Hook Rum is the extent of my experience at this point with 3 gallon on oak. It is coloring up and smelling/tasting pretty good so far after 36 days now.

One of these days I will try the sweet feed recipe which calls for 1 tablespoon (9.4g) dry yeast per 6 gallons. This is much closer to the rates you refer to, but the ingredients and end product are not the same. Don't have a huge amount of experience at this point so I can't say "why" there is such a difference in the quantity of yeast between these products, but I'm sure there's a reason.

Thank You,

RCY

I'm trying the Hook Rum for the first time, but will use distillers yeast nutrients and Lalvin ICV-K1 (V1116) yeast.

10.5 gals of wash expecting 1.072 SG - 1.000 FG 9.5% abv
1 gal Blackstrap Molasses = 11lb
10 lbs white sugar
Brewhaus Distillers Yeast Nutrients 60g.
Lalvin ICV-K1 (V1116) yeast 10g
90 degree ferment temp

[King Of Hearts]

My hook Rum is done after 4 days it's at 1.000 Now that's what I call getting her done. Updated specs below.

10.5 gals of wash 1.083 SG - 1.000 FG 11% abv

1 gal Blackstrap Molasses = 11lb
10 lbs white sugar
Brewhaus Distillers Yeast Nutrients 60g.
Lalvin ICV-K1 (V1116) yeast 10g
1 tspn Acid Blend
85-90 degree ferment temp