New Member With questions after running 1st Wash

[mowrey1999]

Well, I had a few questions and wanted to ask any one who might be able to help, I did read tons of articles for a few weeks before I tried to run my first batch of UJSSM, any way here is my question maybe someone can steer me in the right direction,
I made my first wash and decided on UJSSM it sounded pretty easy, I went by the book and it furmented out within 5 days, Starting SG of 1.050 and finished out at .995 it appeared, I racket it and let it sit 2 days and it was ready to run .
My setup , I have a mile high 13 gallon stainless pot with Traditional 3"pot still head. and propane heat.
I went got the set up ready, poured in my mash,Started heating about 5 pm in the evening, I started raising temp about 10 * per 10 minutes till I started getting drips which was at about 160* tank temp and figured that was going to be the stuff I was going to throw away so collected about 1300ml to put aside for starting fires,
I noticed when I got the Tank temp around 205 there was nothing but steam coming out of the end of the arm so backed it down to about 200 tank temp where it was drippping about 3-4 drops a second,
The first jar I was able to collect I checked the proof and surprisingly tested about 90 Proof or 45 ABV which surprised me and I did add a copper scrubber to the pot before running so I figured that must have really helped, the first 900 ML took about 3 hours to collect.
The next quart jar ran was 80 proof and was another 3 hours, I tried turning up the heat and its really touchy and if you just raise it a couple degrees it would just send a mist of steam out the end of the tube and would hardly drips so since I was not doing any cooling just trying to make a stripping run felt it would be ok,and might be drinkable as it was,
As I started the 3rd jar i tested it from the start and it right away was at 70 proof coming right off the still so since I seen others say on a stripping run to stop around 35 abv I felt its best to stop with what I had after 6 hours and then see what was left in my pot and just use it for mixing the sugar for the next batch,
I shut the operation down and took the pot apart and saw there was about 7 gallons of liquid still in the still. ? is this the way it should be ?after starting with 10 gallons,
My understanding was if I run the 10 gallons of liquid I would end up with around 3-4 quarts depending on the alcohol percentage of my wash I figured the pot would be empty or the liquid at least almost used up,
My wash ran fine and the temp in my tank stayed at 205 for the 2 quarts so I figured it must be getting close to being used up especially since I had 1300 ml of acetone ect,to get rid of off the front .
Any ideas or do I need to keep running until my tank is empty, as I said I never could get a small stream going since it would just either drip 4 drops a second or if I turned it up just a degree or 2 it would just turn to steam, so I just let it drip and could only get 1 qt every 3 hours , does this sound about right, well I am mixing another batch for next weekend and will hook the water to the arm and see if that helps but I am open to suggestions and thanks

[mash rookie]

I noticed when I got the Tank temp around 205 there was nothing but steam coming out of the end of the arm so backed it down

You were either running faster than the product condenser could handle or you did not have enough coolant flow to it. You likely lost much of your product to the environment. That is not safe either.

[MitchyBourbon]

Mowrey1999,

I think your not getting enough cooling to condense all of the the vapor. Alcohol vapor coming out you still is very dangerous, especially around open flames. If you see steam coming out your condenser try increasing the water flow till you don't see any steam. Also, can you tell me where the cold water is entering your condenser?

[mowrey1999]

Thanks for all the imput, First I will say that coolant seems to be the issue and It was my understanding if i just run my still as a pot still I didnt have to run the coolant, I could just run it and collect all the spirits on the initial run, Then rerun with coolant for a better quality spirit so I guess my first mistake,
So I do have coolant lines I just was not using them on the first run was all so,My first hicup as I am trying to take this all in ,As far as the cooling lines I believe you hook the bottom line up and then the flow goes up the arm and exits the top then back into the coolant tank when I get it hooked up and going,
I know when I did see the steam I immediatly backed down the temp to where it wasnt exiting the condenser but as I said there wasnt much coming out and it took 3 hours to get 800 ml so it was a slow process, and I felt I was doing something wrong or there was a issue somewhere so i wanted to ask here since you guys seem to have all the answers , well thanks for the help and I will keep everyone posted on my next run a success I hope,

[CuWhistle]

Ethanol vapors are invisible. The only reason you could see the vapor was because it contained water (steam). At 45% ABV / 55% steam there would be very little risk of explosion or fire (not no risk, but it would be unlikely) if you are taking proper ventilation precautions. Extraction fans, open windows, putting some distance between extraction point and flame etc, etc.

You have to run a condenser all the time. Without it you are not distilling, but simply boiling liquids. My boiler takes a good hour to get up to temperature but I turn my condenser water flow on after 30 minutes.

As for quantities extracted and left as waste. Your volumes should remain fairly constant, provided you are condensing back to liquid. For example; if you start with 25 litres at 10%, you have 22.5 litres of water and 2.5 litres of Ethanol. If you pull all the alcohol off at 50% ABV you would have 5 litres of product leaving 20 litres in the boiler. Since you do not distill until you are getting 0% ABV then there will always be some left in the boiler, but if you combine your volume of product and determine the average ABV then the maths should prove fairly consistent. My experience is that it is all very solid and predictable.

[CuWhistle]

I just re-read your original post properly. There appears to be a fair bit you need to grasp.

Firstly, you will never "empty your tank". You are using the distillation process to remove the concentrated alcohol from a diluted solution. This will leave the water in the tank.

Second, you must use a condenser to turn the vapours back to liquid, otherwise your just boiling into the atmosphere.

Third, temperature readings have very little value when you are running a pot still. Put the thermometer away, you don't need it.

Now let's look at your numbers.
Starting Gravity 1.050,
Finishing Gravity 0.995.
This means a change of 55 points. Multiply your points by 0.135.
55 X 0.135 = 7.425
This means your wash is 7.425% ABV. So in the 10 gallons you put in your tank there is 0.7425 Gallons of pure Ethanol. (lets call it 3/4 gallon or 3 quarts).

The next thing I read is that you took off the first 1300mls (1.5 quarts) to use for lighting fires. This is way too much and you probably wasted a lot of product even though it may be (probably is) heads. I would only discard about 300mls or 1/2 pint. It probably wont be very useful at lighting fires either by the way. Foreshots from pot still at 65% are not as volatile as those from a reflux still which can be 95%.

Your first good product should be coming off at 60 - 65%. You only started collecting at 45% which is where you should be thinking about cutting your tails. Maybe a bit lower but you seem to have missed a fair bit.

With that volume to start with (10 gallons at 7.425%) you should have been able to take 1.5 gallons (6 quarts) averaging 50%, so if your first gear was 65% and you stopped at 35%. You will never get the full amount but you should do better than you did. You probably let a fair bit go into the air while you ran without cooling water. So your boiler should only have gone down from 10 to 8.5 gallons if it was all working properly. Did you measure or guess what you had left?

[mowrey1999]

CU, Yes, I do have a lot to grasp and just doing the first run has helped a lot, I know there were a lot of mistakes but just running everything and seeing how everything works or reacts helps a lot I feel, I did take extensive notes while running about temp and times so feel even though I made a lot of mistakes it will definately help in the future since I have seen the out come now.
As far as what was left over did I guess or check the amount ?, I just guessed and it was probably 3/4 full or almost 8 gallons left in the pot after the run so I was definately surprised after running what was left,In the pot but feel I have a better grasp for next time,
As far as the thermometer, The pot has one built into it so thats the only reason I was taking readings, The internal temp of the liquid seemed to be easy to control and i just wanted to take notes on temp for next run so i would be better prepared,
I did run fans in the area also so there was plenty of ventilation in the area so I didnt feel that was a issue, and there was plenty of air movement in the work area.
After I shut down everything and new I would need some time to see what I did wrong, I went and started another batch of the UJSSM and used what was left in my buckets to get started, just melted my sugar as before and ended up with about the same SG 1.050 as last time with 10 gallons liquid. Hopefully If things go right i can get another 10 gallons ready for next weekend and give it another shot ,This time I will have my cooling lines run to the condenser and will run my first 300 ml to throw out and go from there , I will keep everyone posted on the results and thanks everyone for your replys and help,

[beowoulfe]

The internal temp of the liquid seemed to be easy to control

You can't control that temp. It's a function of the alcohol and water solution mixture ratio. Alcohol boils at a lower temp than water. As the alcohol boils off the temp rises getting closer to water boil temp. Wouldn't matter much how much heat you put to it, it's gonna boil where the solution ratio dictates.