Help, I'm Lost Somewhere on the Rum Trail

[Buccaneer Bob]

First, sorry about the long post.

A little about me. I built a 30 liter stainless pot-still with copper Liebig condenser a few months ago to make brandy from about 250 liters of plum wine that I made last year. The wine didn't turn out as well as I had hoped, but the brandy I made from it turned out amazingly well, and several people have already placed requests for my next round of distillation.

I am not an "old pro" at this stuff, but I am not totally clueless, either.

Now then, for the last few months I have been on the trail of a light to medium rum with what I consider to be a "classic rum flavor" -- a lot of you have probably sampled some of Bacardi's various rums, so I will toss those out there as a frame of reference -- but I am just not getting anything anywhere close to what I am looking for.

I have a dunder pit going that I started with my first batch of dunder, and it has gone through several stages including dusty-brown and fuzzy-green. It smells reasonably interesting, but using my dunder and the included bacteria in a co-ferment with yeast, a la Arroyo, on fresh molasses-and-sugar is giving me a pretty twangy distillate.

Coming right off the still, it almost tastes like it's made with strongly, strongly, chlorinated water, but it's definitely not chlorine that I am tasting, because I have been blessed with some of the finest well-water on the planet, pumped from the top of a 7,000 foot high aquifer.

The flavor of this distillate seems to improve somewhat, aging on oak, but it has a definite twang to it for quite awhile ... and still nothing like a "classic rum flavor," by my account. I am trying to project-out to how it will taste with some age on it, but I just don't think that twang is going to ultimately result in the "classic rum flavor" I am shooting for.

After two months of aging, it has more of a mild bourbony taste to me than a rum taste.

Well, I am remembering back to my first ferments of molasses-and-sugar, before I started using the rancid dunder, and I was coming up with a distillate that had a light molasses taste which seemed to me to be a lot closer to a rum flavor than what I am getting currently from the dunder-bacteria-and-yeast co-ferment.

So I am not quite sold on the idea of a bacteria-and-yeast co-ferment, and I am considering:
Step 1) going back to a straight yeast ferment of sugar and molasses,
Step 2) doing a stripping run,
Step 3) mixing my low wines with funky dunder from my dunder pit,
Step 4) allowing that to sit and mingle for a week or so (bacteria will die, of course, but some flavors should carry over)
Step 5) doing my spirit run from that, and
Step 6) aging for awhile to see where that gets me

I am theorizing that this might give me the best of both worlds: the cleaner molasses taste of a straight yeast ferment of molasses-and-sugar and the more complex flavors that come from the funky bacteria infected dunder, just a little less of it.

I have also gone back and sampled some of my tails, and I am wondering if I should include more tails in my heart-cut, since the 2-week-old tails I have laying around seem to have shifted away from that cardboardy flavor and are tasting more like rum to me than a lot of the hearts I have been coming up with lately.

There was also some interesting stuff in the heads. I aired everything out before making my cuts and discarded the hotter heads, but I am wondering about keeping a smidgen more of the heads and seeing if those mellow with time and contribute those interesting flavors I was getting in the heads without all the heat.

And I have experimented with additions of clarified molasses and/or caramelized sugar to my liquor to see where that got me, but neither of those additions seemed to do much more than add a little color, which I don't really need because I can get more than enough color, aging on oak. However, I haven't explored tossing in pineapple slices, raisins, cloves, or any of the other stuff that some folks have suggested here on the forums, and maybe I should be exploring some of those things, as well.

But I just don't know.

Should I be focusing on how and when I use my dunder? The quality of my dunder? Should I be looking at shifting my cuts to include more heads or tails? Should I be experimenting with post-distillation flavoring?

I am feeling a little bit lost, here, and more than a little bit overwhelmed by the time it takes me to mix, ferment, distill, test and mature a single experiment. Can one or two of you rum guys point me in the right direction?

[King Of Hearts]

What yeast are you using? This will have a big effect on your product. Try to get an authentic rum yeast. Bacardi smuggled theirs out of Cuba before Castro took over and destroyed what was there.

[blind drunk]

Well, I am remembering back to my first ferments of molasses-and-sugar, before I started using the rancid dunder, and I was coming up with a distillate that had a light molasses taste which seemed to me to be a lot closer to a rum flavor than what I am getting currently from the dunder-bacteria-and-yeast co-ferment.

Could be the infected dunder, like you're thinking. Having used it only a half dozen of times myself, I can't see how an infected dunder wash could make a lighter rum. Maybe it could be done with a fancier pot still or a thumper, but I can't see it with a straight ahead potstill.

Step 3) mixing my low wines with funky dunder from my dunder pit,
Step 4) allowing that to sit and mingle for a week or so (bacteria will die, of course, but some flavors should carry over)

Or maybe add just a small amount of dunder in your spirit run. This will give you better control of the amount of dunder carry over that you get. I read that folks freeze the dunder before they use it in this way. Same with charging a thumper.

There was also some interesting stuff in the heads. I aired everything out before making my cuts and discarded the hotter heads, but I am wondering about keeping a smidgen more of the heads and seeing if those mellow with time and contribute those interesting flavors I was getting in the heads without all the heat.

That's definitely worth exploring.

I remember when doing my infected dunder runs, there was this incredible aroma coming from the still but it never made it into the jars

LWTCS has been working the dunder angle to the bone, hopefully he'll be along soon ...

[Durace11]

So I am not quite sold on the idea of a bacteria-and-yeast co-ferment, and I am considering:
Step 1) going back to a straight yeast ferment of sugar and molasses,
Step 2) doing a stripping run,
Step 3) mixing my low wines with funky dunder from my dunder pit,
Step 4) allowing that to sit and mingle for a week or so (bacteria will die, of course, but some flavors should carry over)
Step 5) doing my spirit run from that, and
Step 6) aging for awhile to see where that gets me

My understanding was that you didn't ferment with the dunder but used it in the still when you were ready to run? Bacteria & yeast ferment will give you a sour/spoiled ferment. Also, you shouldn't need to let the dunder and low wines mingle for a week, more like a few minutes IMO. Probably want to search for the dunder pit thread, it has crazy amounts of info about dunder in it.

[Prairiepiss]

What yeast are you using? This will have a big effect on your product. Try to get an authentic rum yeast. Bacardi smuggled theirs out of Cuba before Castro took over and destroyed what was there.

To add to this response. You never really told us much about your recipe. What you used and how much? Other then sugar and molasses. So please give us some more info on that. As it will make a big difference too.

And I don't think I would be comparing to bacardi.

[Buccaneer Bob]

What yeast are you using? This will have a big effect on your product. Try to get an authentic rum yeast. Bacardi smuggled theirs out of Cuba before Castro took over and destroyed what was there.

Thus far I have been using a bakers yeast made by Lallemand. They have two different varieties of bakers yeast that they sell by the brick to the local bakeries, and I am using the one geared toward sweet breads. It will easily ferment to 15% ABV and flocculates well. But you may be onto something, about the yeast. Maybe I need to get some yeast specifically geared toward rum.

And thanks, blind drunk. Yeah, I am pretty much open to either a lighter rum or a heavier rum, just so long as it tastes like rum of some sort. I started in using dunder after my first batch tasted more like molasses than anything, but maybe backing off my dunder strategy a bit might be the right way to go for me.

So do you think I should be exploring more of the heads than the tails?

My understanding was that you didn't ferment with the dunder but used it in the still when you were ready to run? Bacteria & yeast ferment will give you a sour/spoiled ferment. Also, you shouldn't need to let the dunder and low wines mingle for a week, more like a few minutes IMO. Probably want to search for the dunder pit thread, it has crazy amounts of info about dunder in it.

I may not have been real clear above. Yes, I have been doing the bacteria-and-yeast co-ferment here lately. And yes, it's mighty sour. With the straight yeast ferment, my molasses-and-sugar wash tasted a lot like Guinness Stout at the end of the ferment -- quite nice, really. A few batches later, with the dunder in the works, I made the mistake of tasting, and it's a miracle I lived to tell about it.

[Prairiepiss]

Your not boiling your dunder before adding it to the new wash?

And your post made me wonder. What ABV you are fermenting to?

Again give us some more detail on the recipe please.

[blind drunk]

So do you think I should be exploring more of the heads than the tails?

Explore what's good, regardless of where it lines up. Within reason, of course. Using the edges of the run may require a longer aging process.

Co-ferments are difficult. If I did that again, I would try and get the ferment dry within a couple of days and then distill quickly after that. It's what my gut tells me. Any longer, and you could be asking for trouble. That's because bacteria will always win in the end, the longer you give it.

[LWTCS]

If you got twang you need to run it again IMO.

Remember too that the Baccardi's and the Don Q's will have been in a barrel for two years and then on glass for another two...

[King Of Hearts]

I tried K1 yeast that some people like. To me it's half wine half rum like. It's good too drink but not a rum. It does have the butteriness in the tails so I added some to the hearts and aging on heavy charred wood. I like it but it's not rummy enough. I didn't save the dunder and do a second batch. I want a real rum yeast next time.

[Buccaneer Bob]

What yeast are you using? This will have a big effect on your product. Try to get an authentic rum yeast. Bacardi smuggled theirs out of Cuba before Castro took over and destroyed what was there.

To add to this response. You never really told us much about your recipe. What you used and how much? Other then sugar and molasses. So please give us some more info on that. As it will make a big difference too.

And I don't think I would be comparing to bacardi.

Your not boiling your dunder before adding it to the new wash?

And your post made me wonder. What ABV you are fermenting to?

Again give us some more detail on the recipe please.

Sorry about that, Prariepiss. I guess I didn't go into it because I have been through so many variations lately, and I'm not terribly committed to a formula yet.

I started off with something very similar to Pugirum, but my recipe and process has evolved to roughly this:

1) Put 3 liters of molasses and 2 liters of funky dunder in a 5-gallon bucket. Add water to roughly 3/4 full and stir.
2) Make a yeast bomb: A) harvest and boil 1/2 liter of spent yeast from the previous batch; B) add about one liter of water to cool the boiled yeast down to roughly body temperature; C) Add four handfuls of sugar and two handfuls of fresh yeast; D) Shake vigorously; and E) Shake periodically over the course of a couple hours
3) Pitch yeast into bucket with molasses, dunder and water.
4) Cover and allow to ferment for 2-3 days.
5) After 2-3 days, add 3 kg of unrefined sugar, stir well, and add water to the bucket to top it up -- about 1-inch from the top.
6) Cover, and allow fermentation to complete and yeast to flocculate -- takes me about 2 weeks at around 20 degrees C.
7) Siphon wash into still, leaving behind spent yeast for future yeast bomb nutrients.
8 ) Do a stripping run in the pot-still.
9) Put one liter of funky dunder from dunder pit, low wines and the tails from my previous spirit run into pot-still and dilute to under 40% ABV.
10) Do a spirit run.
11) Take off distillate in 400 ml batches, pour in separate, labeled jars, cover with cloth and a rubberband, and allow spirits to air out for 2-4 days, depending on humidity, etc.
13) See what seems to be worth keeping, put that in a glass jug on chunks of oak, cut to roughly barrel strength and allow it to age.
14) Set foreshots/heads aside for cleaning purposes and save tails for the next spirit run.

As near as I can tell, I am fermenting to roughly 15% ABV, which is really a crucial thing for me. I only have a 30 liter pot-still, and I can only charge it to around 20 liters to avoid puking. If I can start with a roughly 15% ABV wash, it just starts to be worth my trouble, I think.

I know a lot of guys do a rum wash in the 7-8% ABV range, and I might eventually give that a try, but if it starts seeming to be too much trouble for the little amount of distillate I can get out of the deal, I might have to shift back to doing more brandy.

The trouble with brandy being that fruit is seasonal, so you have to really do things in furious bursts. Whereas, I live in a sugar producing country, and I can buy molasses and sugar year-round at a really reasonable price, so I can make rum whenever it suits me.

[blind drunk]

How long to ferment a 15% rum wash? I think that if you want to make rum a la Arroyo, then you should stick with his abv target as well, which I think is quite low (if I'm remembering right). It's a fine balance.

[King Of Hearts]

The maximum initial total sugars concentration of 13 grams per 100 ml. has been selected to the benefit of the bacteria, as most bacteria of the propionic and butyric groups do not tolerate the sugars at much above 6 grams per 100 ml., and are also inhibited by alcohol concentrations of 8 percent by volume, or above. Since 13 grams per 100 ml. does not yield over 8 percent by vol-ume (probable yield, 7.0 to 7.5 percent), a safety factor is provided regardless of the yeast action. Since the total sugars are reduced to about 6.0 grams per 100 ml. at bacterial seeding, the con-sequent alcohol concentration will not exceed 4 percent by volume, and the bacteria are then well able to proceed with their own work and in the symbiosis.

Continuous stills may be used when pro-vided with an efficient pasteurizing column and when specifically designed for low-proof distilla-tion, that is, when provided with four or five plates, or less, in the rectifying section of the col-umn. However, preference is given to discon-tinuous distillation except for economical pur-poses in the case of very large installations. In distilling, the resulting beer may be distilled directly, or it may be allowed a certain period of rest, varying from 12 to 18 hours. The latter practice is preferred and recommended, as it greatly improves the quality of the resulting rum.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Explore what's good, regardless of where it lines up. Within reason, of course. Using the edges of the run may require a longer aging process.

Co-ferments are difficult. If I did that again, I would try and get the ferment dry within a couple of days and then distill quickly after that. It's what my gut tells me. Any longer, and you could be asking for trouble. That's because bacteria will always win in the end, the longer you give it.

Good, solid advise.

How long to ferment a 15% rum wash? I think that if you want to make rum a la Arroyo, then you should stick with his abv target as well, which I think is quite low (if I'm remembering right). It's a fine balance.

It's taking me about 2 weeks from start to finish. And yeah, you might be onto something about giving the bacteria too much time to do their thing. I think on the next go-round, I will try it the way I described in the initial post, just using the funky dunder for flavoring, rather than for a co-ferment, and see what that gets me.

[Prairiepiss]

As near as I can tell, I am fermenting to roughly 15% ABV, which is really a crucial thing for me. I only have a 30 liter pot-still, and I can only charge it to around 20 liters to avoid puking. If I can start with a roughly 15% ABV wash, it just starts to be worth my trouble, I think.

I know a lot of guys do a rum wash in the 7-8% ABV range, and I might eventually give that a try, but if it starts seeming to be too much trouble for the little amount of distillate I can get out of the deal, I might have to shift back to doing more brandy.

At risk of sounding like a jerk. If you don't like what your getting from it. Why would you not pursue a lower ABV wash. Like those lot of guys that are having success with theirs? Just my two nickles.

[Buccaneer Bob]

The maximum initial total sugars concentration of 13 grams per 100 ml. has been selected to the benefit of the bacteria, as most bacteria of the propionic and butyric groups do not tolerate the sugars at much above 6 grams per 100 ml., and are also inhibited by alcohol concentrations of 8 percent by volume, or above. Since 13 grams per 100 ml. does not yield over 8 percent by vol-ume (probable yield, 7.0 to 7.5 percent), a safety factor is provided regardless of the yeast action. Since the total sugars are reduced to about 6.0 grams per 100 ml. at bacterial seeding, the con-sequent alcohol concentration will not exceed 4 percent by volume, and the bacteria are then well able to proceed with their own work and in the symbiosis.

Continuous stills may be used when pro-vided with an efficient pasteurizing column and when specifically designed for low-proof distilla-tion, that is, when provided with four or five plates, or less, in the rectifying section of the col-umn. However, preference is given to discon-tinuous distillation except for economical pur-poses in the case of very large installations. In distilling, the resulting beer may be distilled directly, or it may be allowed a certain period of rest, varying from 12 to 18 hours. The latter practice is preferred and recommended, as it greatly improves the quality of the resulting rum.

At risk of sounding like a jerk. If you don't like what your getting from it. Why would you not pursue a lower ABV wash. Like those lot of guys that are having success with theirs? Just my two nickles.

I'm sure that y'all are right about the lower ABV wash. I am thinking I will try things like I mentioned in the first post about using the dunder for flavor in the spirit run, and if that doesn't get me closer to where I want to go, I will try a run with the lower ABV and see where that gets me.

[King Of Hearts]

The maximum initial total sugars concentration of 13 grams per 100 ml. has been selected to the benefit of the bacteria, as most bacteria of the propionic and butyric groups do not tolerate the sugars at much above 6 grams per 100 ml., and are also inhibited by alcohol concentrations of 8 percent by volume, or above. Since 13 grams per 100 ml. does not yield over 8 percent by vol-ume (probable yield, 7.0 to 7.5 percent), a safety factor is provided regardless of the yeast action. Since the total sugars are reduced to about 6.0 grams per 100 ml. at bacterial seeding, the con-sequent alcohol concentration will not exceed 4 percent by volume, and the bacteria are then well able to proceed with their own work and in the symbiosis.

Continuous stills may be used when pro-vided with an efficient pasteurizing column and when specifically designed for low-proof distilla-tion, that is, when provided with four or five plates, or less, in the rectifying section of the col-umn. However, preference is given to discon-tinuous distillation except for economical pur-poses in the case of very large installations. In distilling, the resulting beer may be distilled directly, or it may be allowed a certain period of rest, varying from 12 to 18 hours. The latter practice is preferred and recommended, as it greatly improves the quality of the resulting rum.

At risk of sounding like a jerk. If you don't like what your getting from it. Why would you not pursue a lower ABV wash. Like those lot of guys that are having success with theirs? Just my two nickles.

I'm sure that y'all are right about the lower ABV wash. I am thinking I will try things like I mentioned in the first post about using the dunder for flavor in the spirit run, and if that doesn't get me closer to where I want to go, I will try a run with the lower ABV and see where that gets me.

Bakers yeast looks like a good choice if not using rum yeast. What you need are the right bugs to use when the ferment is half way done, starting at 8% abv and pitch them at 4% abv and let them finish it off, wait 12-18 hrs and run it. I wish I knew where to get em, the labs are quite expensive.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Just wanted to say thanks to everybody for their help, thus far.

Blind Drunk was surely onto something about me giving the bacteria too much time to do their worst. As near as I can tell, I have been making the rum equivalent to "sour mash".

Duh!

Yeah, I have re-read Arroyo's 1945 "Production of Heavy Rums" patent process, and the bacteria don't have more than 36 hours to do their thing.

No wonder my supposed rum has such a twang to it!

Anywho, I think Arroyo's process would be terribly impractical, if not outright impossible, on a hobby scale -- adjusting the pH one way with milk-of-lime, later adjusting the pH the other way with sulfuric acid, maintaining a constant temperature between 30 and 33 degrees for 6 hours, yada, yada, yada.

But that doesn't mean I can't experiment with and potentially benefit from some of the basic concepts, and I have developed yet another theoretical recipe/process that I think might have some merit.

Instead of doing a co-ferment of bacteria and yeast, my plan is to do my ferment in three stages: Stage 1 is dunder microbes on blackstrap molasses, culminating with a quick boil to kill-off the microbes; Stage 2 is yeast on the remaining molasses sugars; and Stage 3 is yeast on added granular sugar.

This gives me complete control over how much funkiness goes on before I cut it off, and then it gives me a virtually sterile environment to launch my yeast in.

The following is actually two recipes in one: a lower ABV version with straight blackstrap molasses, a la Arroyo; and a higher ABV version that will hopefully allow me to squeeze the most out of my limited distillation equipment.

Ingredients

• 3 liters blackstrap molasses
• 3 kilos sugar (for higher ABV wash or disregard for lower ABV wash, a la Arroyo)
• 2 liters "live" dunder from dunder pit (microbe infected)
• 15 liters water (approximate)
• 2 handfuls of bakers yeast (or other yeast)
• 1/2 liter boiled yeast trub from previous batch (or boil about 200 grams of fresh yeast in 1/2 liter of water)

Process

• Step 1: Put 2 liters of "live" dunder from dunder pit and 3 liters of molasses in a suitable container, stir, and cover. (Depending on the size of cooking pot used in Steps 3 and 4, below, go ahead and add as much extra water as there is room for.)
• Step 2: Allow microbes in dunder to work on molasses for 1-2 days. (Monitor progress to decide how much time is best.)
• Step 3: Siphon or decant "live" dunder and molasses mixture into a good-sized cooking pot, leaving behind as much sediment as possible.
• Step 4: Place cooking pot on the stove, cover, and bring to a quick boil to kill-off the microbes and arrest their attack on the molasses. (Keep covered until steam stops rising off the mixture.)
• Step 5: Pour "dead" dunder and molasses mixture into a suitable, clean, 20-liter bucket.
• Step 6: Add water to bucket, up to about 3/4 full, and cover.
• Step 7: Make a yeast bomb.
  1. Harvest and boil 1/2 liter of spent yeast from the previous batch. (This will be the yeast nutrients.)
  2. Add a liter of water to cool the boiled yeast down to something less than body-temperature.
  3. Add 4 handfuls of sugar and 2 handfuls of fresh yeast.
  4. Shake vigorously.
  5. Shake periodically over the course of an hour or two, oxygenating as well as possible.
• Step 8: Pour yeast bomb into the bucket with "dead" dunder, molasses, and water.
• Step 9: Cover bucket and allow yeast to ferment the remaining molasses sugars for 3-5 days. Then proceed to Step 10.
• Step 10: If making a higher ABV wash, add 3 kilos of sugar, top-up bucket with fresh water to about 1-inch from the top of bucket, stir well, cover, and allow fermentation to continue. For a lower ABV wash, just top-up bucket with fresh water.
• Step 11: After fermentation has completed and yeast has flocculated, siphon wash into pot-still, saving spent yeast on the bottom of the bucket for a future yeast bomb.
• Step 12: Distill, collecting everything until distillate no longer tastes of alcohol. (This, of course, will be the low wines.)
• Step 13: Pour dunder from still into dunder pit to top it up and use the rest of the dunder for fertilizer.
• Step 14: Rinse-out or otherwise clean still.
• Step 15: Charge still with low wines and any tails from previous spirit run. If Steps 1-5, above, didn't yield enough flavor complexity, go ahead and throw a liter or two of "live" dunder into still, as well.
• Step 16: Dilute still-charge to under 40 percent ABV.
• Step 17: Begin distilling and collect distillate in 250-400 ml batches.
• Step 18: Put each of these batches in a separate glass jar, cover each jar with a piece of cloth or a coffee filter, wrap with a rubberband, and allow the batches of distillate to air out for 1-5 days, depending on humidity, air circulation, etc.
• Step 19: After the batches of distillate have aired out, put all of the batches that are worth drinking in an oak keg (or glass jar or jug on pieces of oak); dilute with water to "barrel strength"; bung, cover or cap; and allow liquor to age.
• Step 20: Save heads and foreshots for cleaning purposes, and save all the tails for next spirit run.

[King Of Hearts]

Nice. Arroyo says 1:5 ratio of bugs to yeast. Maybe take 1/5 or 20% of the wort and let the bugs have at it, or maybe 10% or wort to be safe. When both worts are done add to boiler & run.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Nice. Arroyo says 1:5 ratio of bugs to yeast. Maybe take 1/5 or 20% of the wort and let the bugs have at it, or maybe 10% or wort to be safe. When both worts are done add to boiler & run.

Wow, that sounds like it might be a good way to go, as well. I'm guessing it would allow tremendous flexibility and control. I will definitely have to give that a try, too. Thanks.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Well, I went ahead and started a round of this recipe/process yesterday.

I was a little bit concerned about my dunder, which used to smell much more interesting, but seems to have taken on a really bitter beer smell lately.

Even after mixing a bit of it with the fresh molasses, all I could smell was bitter beer ... all day long, just a bitter beer smell.

And I really expected to see some sort of foaming or some other sign of the microbes doing their thing yesterday, but there were no visual cues of microbial action that I could see.

So I was starting to wonder if maybe the microbes in my dunder pit had exhausted their food source and died on me or something.

However, today I smelled the mixture of funky dunder and molasses, and now it starting to smell much, much better ... complex and hard to describe, but nice.

So I am guessing the microbes are still alive, after all, and that they are now doing their thing on the fresh molasses.

I think I will let the microbe infected molasses go another day to see where it goes, but I imagine I will probably do the quick boil tomorrow to stop the process, because I definitely don't want to be back to where I was with the twangy rum.

[Slow & Steady]

Bob, I have made some very disappointing rum in my time, but I found that most of the procedures you mentioned in your first post improved my crappy rum... not the 15% ABV ferment or dunder infused ferments though... I can't make those work.

I get a very strong Molasses taste from my high wines (first distillation)... I keep multiple dunder pits and select the best smelling one to add to the high wines right at second distillation... about 2 parts high wines to 1 part dunder. After second distillation I add raisins and pineapple to the 65-75% ABV distillate. I continue to do this until I build up 6 gallons of 65-75% ABV distillate. I leave it on the raisins and pineapple for 5 to 6 weeks then I filter it through a couple cotton balls into a 6 gallon used charred oak barrel to age for as long as I can stand... a year or so. Now I make a rum that I enjoy drinking. Although the ABV is a little high so a 2 ounce nip in your Coke really "Does the Job".

S&S

[Buccaneer Bob]

Bob, I have made some very disappointing rum in my time, but I found that most of the procedures you mentioned in your first post improved my crappy rum... not the 15% ABV ferment or dunder infused ferments though... I can't make those work.

I get a very strong Molasses taste from my high wines (first distillation)... I keep multiple dunder pits and select the best smelling one to add to the high wines right at second distillation... about 2 parts high wines to 1 part dunder. After second distillation I add raisins and pineapple to the 65-75% ABV distillate. I continue to do this until I build up 6 gallons of 65-75% ABV distillate. I leave it on the raisins and pineapple for 5 to 6 weeks then I filter it through a couple cotton balls into a 6 gallon used charred oak barrel to age for as long as I can stand... a year or so. Now I make a rum that I enjoy drinking. Although the ABV is a little high so a 2 ounce nip in your Coke really "Does the Job".

S&S

Good to know, Slow & Steady.

I have already started a batch according to my later posts, but after that, I will try a round according to the first post.

Thanks for the input.

[Buccaneer Bob]

Hey, guys, just wanted to post a followup. I would have done this sooner, but a thunderstorm knocked out our local wireless internet tower three weeks ago -- basically burned it to the ground -- and they just got my internet service restored last night.

Well, I finished up my first run according to the method I documented in this post here, and my results were MUCH better than my earlier efforts.

The twang is gone! Woohoo!

And the "rum" is thoroughly enjoyable, with a surprisingly distinctive cherry aftertaste. Not sure how that happened, but I am guessing it has something to do with my dunder.

I still haven't hit on my idea of the definitive rum, yet, but I could easily picture that cherry taste shifting to more of a rum taste with a little more aging -- assuming it lasts that long.

Anyway, I am making a few tweaks to the process on this next run. First, my sugar calculations were wrong in that last batch. I was using this chart here, but I got a little confused when it came to pure-water versus sugar-in-water volumes.

After plugging my recipe into HD's sugar wash applet, I found that my potential ABV was too high for bakers yeast to ferment out. So I have adjusted my sugar accordingly.

Next, I have a hunch that my nitrogen requirements are more than I can satisfy, using the little bit of boiled yeast trub left over from my previous ferment.

According to "How to Feed Your Yeast" by Cornell University's Mark Nisbet, having 350 mg of "yeast assimilable nitrogen" per liter of wash/mash/must is beneficial when shooting for a potential alcohol in the 13-14 percent range.

Also, some vitamins, trace minerals, and such are supposedly helpful, as well, so I am going to toss in a multivitamin on the next run as well.

So here is my next plan-of-action:

Recipe for 13.8 Percent ABV Rum Wash

Ingredients

• 3 liters blackstrap molasses
• 2 kilos sugar (for 13.8 percent ABV wash or disregard for lower ABV wash, a la Arroyo)
• 2 liters "live" dunder from dunder pit (microbe infected)
• 14 liters water (approximate)
• 2 handfuls of bakers yeast (or other yeast)
• 1 liter boiled yeast trub from previous batch (or boil about 100 grams of fresh yeast in 1 liter of water)
• 7 grams nitrogen (e.g. 32 grams DAP or 35 grams of 20-X-Y fertilizer -- roughly 4 tablespoons)
• 1 multivitamin

Process

Stage 1

• Step 1) Put 2 liters of "live" dunder from dunder pit and 3 liters of molasses in a suitable container, stir, and cover. (Depending on the size of cooking pot used in Steps 3 and 4, below, go ahead and add as much extra water as there is room for.)
• Step 2) Allow microbes in dunder to work on molasses for 1-3 days. (Monitor progress to decide how much time is best.)

Stage 2

• Step 3) Decant "live" dunder and molasses mixture into a good-sized cooking pot, leaving behind as much sediment as possible.
• Step 4) Place cooking pot on the stove, cover, and bring to a quick boil to kill-off the microbes and arrest their attack on the molasses. (Mixture has a tendency to foam up, so keep a close eye on it, and turn off the heat as soon as mixture threatens to foam. Keep covered and allow the mixture to cool for an hour or so on stove.)
• Step 5) Pour "dead" dunder and molasses mixture into a suitable, clean, 20-liter bucket.
• Step 6) Add water to bucket, up to about 2/3 full, cover and allow mixture to cool down to below 32 degrees C. This will probably take a few hours, unless the mixture is cooled using a "wort chiller", etc.
• Step 7) While dunder/molasses/water mixture is cooling down, make a yeast bomb.
  1. Harvest and boil 1 liter of spent yeast trub from the previous batch, along with 7 grams of nitrogen and 1 multivitamin.
  2. Add 4 handfuls of sugar and mix well.
  3. Add 2 liters of water to cool the mixture down below 32 degrees C.
  4. After ensuring mixture has cooled down, add 2 handfuls of fresh yeast.
  5. Shake vigorously.
  6. Shake periodically over the course of an hour or two, oxygenating as well as possible.
• Step 8 ) After verifying that the dunder/molasses/water wash has cooled to below 32 degrees C, pour yeast bomb into the bucket, and stir well, oxygenating the wash as well as possible.
• Step 9) Cover bucket, store in a cool place, and allow yeast to ferment the remaining molasses sugars for 3-5 days.

Stage 3

• Step 10) If making a higher ABV wash, carefully stir wash to knock CO2 out of suspension (watch for foam-up), slowly add 2 kilos of sugar, top-up bucket with fresh water to about 1-inch from the top of bucket, stir well to dissolve sugar, testing for the grit of sugar on the bottom of the bucket with stirring paddle, cover bucket, and allow fermentation to continue. For a lower ABV wash, just top-up bucket with fresh water.
• Step 11) After fermentation has completed and yeast has flocculated -- 3-5 days for lower ABV wash or 10-14 days for higher ABV wash @ 20 degrees C -- siphon wash into pot-still, saving spent yeast on the bottom of the bucket for a future yeast bomb.
• Step 12) Distill, collecting everything until distillate no longer tastes of alcohol. (This, of course, will be the low wines.)
• Step 13) Pour dunder from still into dunder pit to top it up and use the rest of the dunder for fertilizer.
• Step 14) Rinse-out or otherwise clean still.
• Step 15) Charge still with low wines and any tails from previous spirit run. If Steps 1-5, above, didn't yield enough flavor complexity, go ahead and throw a liter or two of "live" dunder into still, as well.
• Step 16) Dilute still-charge to under 40 percent ABV.
• Step 17) Begin distilling and collect distillate in 250-500 ml batches.
• Step 18) Put each of these batches in a separate glass jar, cover each jar with a piece of cloth or a coffee filter, wrap with a rubberband, and allow the batches of distillate to air out for 1-5 days, depending on humidity, air circulation, etc.
• Step 19) After the batches of distillate have aired out, put all of the batches that are worth drinking in an oak keg (or glass jar or jug on pieces of oak); dilute with water to "barrel strength"; bung, cover or cap; and allow liquor to age.
• Step 20) Save heads and foreshots for cleaning purposes, and save all the tails for next spirit run.

But I have a couple questions.

I have been considering the pH factor, and I am considering adding the juice from either 5 large or 10 small limes right before I pitch the yeast in order to tweak the pH to more acidic.

Much of the literature I have read on rum indicates that commercial distilleries use sulfuric acid to tweak the pH before the start of fermentation, but ascorbic/citric acids are going to be a lot easier for me to get my hands on.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

Next, my "yeast bomb" plan is to mix the extra nitrogen and multivitamin into the yeast bomb to get it into the yeast when they are really working to multiply. But would it be better to hit the yeast with those particular nutrients after the yeast bomb is pitched? Or put them in when I am first making the yeast bomb, like I am thinking?

[rhumman]

Was curious to see how this worked out for you?

[Buccaneer Bob]

Was curious to see how this worked out for you?

So far, so good. I am just finishing up fermentation based on this latest recipe/process, and I seem to be getting a much more thorough fermentation with the extra nitrogen.

It took seven days from the time I pitched the yeast (beginning of stage 2) for the yeast to finish digesting the sugars and flocculate (end of stage 3).

My finishing SG is the lowest I have ever gotten, around 1.02, so it appears that the extra nitrogen really seems to have done the trick.

I will distill tomorrow, and that will give me a much better idea of how it worked, but I am anticipating a significant increase in the amount of drinking quality rum I get after making cuts.

I will follow up and let you know how it went after distillation.

I almost forgot, I took a bottle of the previous run to a family get-together last weekend, and we polished the bottle off. I haven't completely honed in on the quintessential rum, but I am certainly getting a lot closer than with my earlier efforts.

It has definitely been a comedy-of-errors, but I seem to be learning from most of my mistakes and avoiding making them on the next go-round.

[rhumman]

That's awesome. I'd be interested in hearing how it turns out. I'm kinda in the same boat. I'm learning and taking good notes (mental and physical!) as I go along. I don't mind wasting a few bucks to learn the craft. Mistakes are the only real way to learn the art of distilling as far as I can see!

[rumbuff]

Seems to be a fairly labour intensive method! I've been experimenting with dunder lately. I've been leaving all the trub in the bottom of my fermenter, and adding the sugar, hot water and molasses into the container, and then 30% dunder straight out of the pit, and repitching yeast. I don't need to add yeast every time, but I figure that it'll counter the bacteria before they can get too much of a hold, and I have enough sugar to kick it to 14% and that seems be be killing all the nasties after they contribute their flavor. Seems to be working, and adds a good deal of complexity each time, without the extra effort you're describing. That said, if it's working for you, then great! As a side note, have you ever noticed a chocolate like aroma in your dunder? I'm curious to see how much the local flora has to do with the flavour of the dunder, and therefore the rum. Any thoughts on that?

[LWTCS]

If you have chocolate notes you are in good shape. That smell will be more pronounced after ya run it through the still...

[frozenthunderbolt]

If you have chocolate notes you are in good shape. That smell will be more pronounced after ya run it through the still...

Awesome to know Larry - i had some chocolate/coffee notes last time - was worried as my dunder hasn't ever formed a cap like yours though it has gotten moulded up pretty good a few times.