Good choice for fermentation barrels?

[johnodon]

Somewhere down the road I want to move to a sanke 15.5 gallon keg still. I have only ever used 6 gallon HDPE buckets for fermenting (back to my homebrew days). I am looking at the two barrels listed below once I make the jump..one is 13 gallon and the other is 15 gallon. The 13 gallon is listed as HDPE while the 15 gallon is listed only as Food Safe.

Is the 15 gallon one ruled out since it does not specifically say HDPE

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-gallon-Barre ... 2ec388e99a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Gallons-Barr ... 2ec4030f7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Also found this HDPE one but does not have handles (which I kinda want).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-Gallon-HDPE- ... 35c1e48d20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

TIA for the advice!

John

[Bushman]

The first and 3rd one definitely will work, I have seen similar ones to number 2 used and called food grade but since it is from the same seller as the first one and doesn't say food grade I would probably avoid it to be safe. Another thing to think about is handling that size fermenter. You might want to put it on coasters if you have to move it for racking. I use 6 gallon containers and use 2 for each run filling them to 5.5 gallons giving me an 11 gallon charge. Much easier to handle but do take up more space in my fermenting room.

[johnodon]

The first and 3rd one definitely will work, I have seen similar ones to number 2 used and called food grade but since it is from the same seller as the first one and doesn't say food grade I would probably avoid it to be safe. Another thing to think about is handling that size fermenter. You might want to put it on coasters if you have to move it for racking. I use 6 gallon containers and use 2 for each run filling them to 5.5 gallons giving me an 11 gallon charge. Much easier to handle but do take up more space in my fermenting room.

Thanks BM.

Unfortunately, I plan on distilling in the garage but I ferment in the basement so I would need to get the barrel up a flight of stairs. I figured lugging a 12 gallon barrel with handles would still be easier than a keg which I know I can do. Yeah...would like to avoid it if I could but beggars can't be choosers. I really want to try an avoid the two bucket system if I can just for simplicity sake. That being said...I have a bad history od tweaking my back when I try and do too much. Call it Irish Stubborness!

John

[johnodon]

Let me also throw this out there....

I used to be a homebrewer...have since given it up. I know that there are quite a few homebrewers here also so you will know what I am talking about.

What do you guys think of using a 15 gal. - 20 gal. cooler converted to a mash tun to ferment in? Like this one: http://www.kmart.com/coleman-62-quart-x ... ockType=G2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Naturally, this poses a few questions that need to be answered:

1. Unlike a fermentation bucket, a cooler may not be completely airtight. I could be wrong, but it is a consideration. That being said, there seems to be less concern with airtight/sterilization in distilling than with beer making. Anyone who knows homebrewing...if you do not properly sterilize and protect your fermenter from nasties, God will take your first born child. I just don't see that urgency in distilling but please correct me if I am wrong.

2. Is the material used to make the interior of a cooler safe for higher alcohol content?

3. If I go this route I plan on running some tests...but...for my purposes the cooler is an atrractive option since I would love to ferment in the same place that I plan on distilling...my garage. In the winter, I am guessing my garage will get as low as 4oF degrees. Is there any chance the a "better" cooler can hold fermentation temps at an appropriate level for the duration of the fermentation? I am banking on the yeast activity to help with this but I guess I wouldn't really know until I test. I can take my old mash tun and throw ~12 gallons of ~85F water in it and let it sit in the garage for a week and see what happens. Anyone wanna place some bets?

OK guys...the floor is yours!

John

[johnodon]

/hand on forehead!

I should have searched first. I found quite a few threads about fermenting in a cooler and all indications are that it will work fine. The only X factor is the low temp in the garage. So....I'll run some tests as I stated before and report back.

John

[johnodon]

For anyone who is unfamiliar with coller mash tuns, this is basically what I have:

http://www.chasthomsen.com/2009/04/cool ... rsion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

No siphon required...open the valve and let it drain right into your boiler. I do plan on using a paint strainer bag on the end of the hose coming off of teh ball valve as an extra filter.

John

[Durace11]

First, lugging a 15 gallon barrel full of fermented wash is going to last maybe 1 or 2 ferments and that will stop. You are talking over 100 lbs of liquid going up stairs in an unsealed container...that's just crazy. It's going to be sloshing around and degassing all the way. Get something you can handle easily, if you already have back problems you are looking to add to that by trying to move that much stuff up a flight of stairs. I can see if you ferment in the barrel and rack into a brew bucket to get it up stairs but moving a full barrel is not going to be easy.

A cooler would work fine as long as you don't use it for long tern storage. The seal is a lot less important when it's pushing out CO^2 like crazy but when that starts to slow you can get creepy crawlies going in for a drink. So if you go with the cooler, make sure you can run it quickly once it finishes.

[johnodon]

First, lugging a 15 gallon barrel full of fermented wash is going to last maybe 1 or 2 ferments and that will stop. You are talking over 100 lbs of liquid going up stairs in an unsealed container...that's just crazy. It's going to be sloshing around and degassing all the way. Get something you can handle easily, if you already have back problems you are looking to add to that by trying to move that much stuff up a flight of stairs. I can see if you ferment in the barrel and rack into a brew bucket to get it up stairs but moving a full barrel is not going to be easy.

A cooler would work fine as long as you don't use it for long tern storage. The seal is a lot less important when it's pushing out CO^2 like crazy but when that starts to slow you can get creepy crawlies going in for a drink. So if you go with the cooler, make sure you can run it quickly once it finishes.

Thanks DC.

I would run it quickly...pretty much as soon as it is finished or the very next day.

How do you think an active fermentation would do in a cold garage in a cooler? My main concern is the temp of the ferment dropping too low.

John

[Durace11]

A great cooler can keep temps up for maybe 24 hours but after that it's going to start to chill down to ambient temp. So, depending on your seasonal swings you might want to consider building something like an insulated box. Kinda like a cold box for keeping ferments cool but you just add a lightbulb to keep things warm. There are a few examples around here.

I have more worry about too high temps but I have heard of this type of system working well for others, hot or cold.

[johnodon]

A great cooler can keep temps up for maybe 24 hours but after that it's going to start to chill down to ambient temp. So, depending on your seasonal swings you might want to consider building something like an insulated box. Kinda like a cold box for keeping ferments cool but you just add a lightbulb to keep things warm. There are a few examples around here.

I have more worry about too high temps but I have heard of this type of system working well for others, hot or cold.

I saw the idea of a box in one of the other threads and that is a damn good idea.

[Prairiepiss]

A cooler will also hold heat in. So if the yeast make to much heat. It could run the temps up to high and kill them off. Just something to think about.

I would get a 15 gal fermenter. I would let it clear for two days. Not run it as soon as its done. I would rack it off into a 5 gallon bucket in the basement and carry that up the stairs. If you were to try to carry a 15 gal fermenter. It would take two people. I can't hardly pick mine up. And the sloshing would disturb the yeast cake. And mix it all up again. Not real sure you want that in your boiler.

[johnodon]

A cooler will also hold heat in. So if the yeast make to much heat. It could run the temps up to high and kill them off. Just something to think about.

I would get a 15 gal fermenter. I would let it clear for two days. Not run it as soon as its done. I would rack it off into a 5 gallon bucket in the basement and carry that up the stairs. If you were to try to carry a 15 gal fermenter. It would take two people. I can't hardly pick mine up. And the sloshing would disturb the yeast cake. And mix it all up again. Not real sure you want that in your boiler.

My only issue with getting a regular HDPE barrel/drum fermenter is how thin the walls are. I really want to ferment in my garage and the ambient temp can drop as low as 45F out there. I'm afarid that the temp in one of those type fermenters would drop too low. Is this not a legit concern?

John

[Jimbo]

I really want to ferment in my garage and the ambient temp can drop as low as 45F out there. I'm afarid that the temp in one of those type fermenters would drop too low. Is this not a legit concern?

John

45 degrees could wreak havoc on your fermentation, thats a lot colder than most yeast can work in, unless you wanna try fermenting your mash with a lager yeast

[johnodon]

I really want to ferment in my garage and the ambient temp can drop as low as 45F out there. I'm afarid that the temp in one of those type fermenters would drop too low. Is this not a legit concern?

John

45 degrees could wreak havoc on your fermentation, thats a lot colder than most yeast can work in, unless you wanna try fermenting your mash with a lager yeast

Well, the temp outisde of the fermenter could be ~45F. If I start the mash out at ~85F and the yeast are active right away, do you think they would hold a high enough temp throughout the ferment in a regular thin-walled HDPE barrel?

John

[Jimbo]

Its hard to say, if the mass is large and its only 45 for a few hours during the night, it could hold up some temp higher. But in general the yeast is gonna get really sluggish below say 68, then wake back up at higher temp. It will defintely extend you ferment time way out, and increase risk of a stuck ferment. On the plus side, low slow ferment creates a cleaner ferment with less esters and other byproducts.

[ThrownOlive]

Maybe put fermenters in a water bath with a small aquarium hater in the bath? I've been using a large Rubbermaid tub with two 6gal buckets. Water goes up about 4" away from the top of buckets and this has been the most reliably stable I have kept my fermenter temp in a drafty garage. I cut out a bit of a foam camping pad to set on top as a ld, mostly just keeps my dog from drinking the water bath A young lab pup + fermenting buckets is more an exercise in wrangling microorganism than microorganisms

[midnightmaraude]

I like the ones from milehidistillery . They are 8.5 have molded handles and a spout

[NineInchNails]

A cooler will also hold heat in. So if the yeast make to much heat. It could run the temps up to high and kill them off. Just something to think about.

I would get a 15 gal fermenter. I would let it clear for two days. Not run it as soon as its done. I would rack it off into a 5 gallon bucket in the basement and carry that up the stairs. If you were to try to carry a 15 gal fermenter. It would take two people. I can't hardly pick mine up. And the sloshing would disturb the yeast cake. And mix it all up again. Not real sure you want that in your boiler.

My only issue with getting a regular HDPE barrel/drum fermenter is how thin the walls are. I really want to ferment in my garage and the ambient temp can drop as low as 45F out there. I'm afarid that the temp in one of those type fermenters would drop too low. Is this not a legit concern?

John

Wall thickness of the drum shouldn't make much if any difference. It's the temp that is important not the wall thickness of the fermenters.

A lot of people construct a heated/insulated box to put their fermenters in. This is ideal for areas where the temps are too low. All it would require is a small space heater and a thermostat to maintain temp automatically & reliably.

Here's a few thermostats that would work fine. The Ranco controllers are amazing thermostats.
Hydrofarm Digital Thermostat
Zilla Temperature Controller
Ranco ETC-111000

[Jimbo]

Big box to cover and a lightbulb hanging inside?

[TOAD]

I ferment in my brew pot (keg with top cut out) lay clean shirt on top then "dress" another shirt on the keg (15.5 kegs wear a medium) this IMO is good enough to keep nasties out (even for wine and beer) I brew outside, so, to keep out the wildlife and rain, an upside down snow saucer with a weighted bucket caps the keg. When the temp fluctuates alot the whole mess goes in a water filled rubbermade pale from walmart with fishtank heaters and water circulaters, scored from yard sales. Dont forget to insulate the sides of the pale, huge differance. The whole mess is on the back porch so siphoning into 3 carboys is a sench. Yea looks a little ... white trash , but its the ultimate in hidden in plain sight with other junk layed up against it. Looks like a keg from last weeks party in a bucket of melted ice with crap on top

[Jimbo]

I ferment in my brew pot (keg with top cut out) lay clean shirt on top then "dress" another shirt on the keg (15.5 kegs wear a medium) this IMO is good enough to keep nasties out (even for wine and beer) I brew outside, so, to keep out the wildlife and rain, an upside down snow saucer with a weighted bucket caps the keg. When the temp fluctuates alot the whole mess goes in a water filled rubbermade pale from walmart with fishtank heaters and water circulaters, scored from yard sales. Dont forget to insulate the sides of the pale, huge differance. The whole mess is on the back porch so siphoning into 3 carboys is a sench. Yea looks a little ... white trash , but its the ultimate in hidden in plain sight with other junk layed up against it. Looks like a keg from last weeks party in a bucket of melted ice with crap on top

haha. Perfect!

[Pamulli]

I also ferment in my basement where the ambient temp can get way too cold and I made a heating system out of a product called flex watt heat tape that is used for pet cages. http://www.bigappleherp.com/Flex-Watt-Heat-Tape You buy it by the foot and I just wrap it around my fermenter and I use a controller for a heat matt to control the temp. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref ... s_sce_dp_1 I also wrap mine in bubble insulation to make it more efficient, but I have to be careful because in full fermentation it will actually get too hot with the insulation.
The one downside to the controller I use is that it doesn't go below 68F and some Belgium yeasts may want to ferment a little cooler. You can also buy an STC-1000 digital heat controller http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-STC-100 ... 20c5c422f6 but the wiring is a bit more complicated so if you go that route make sure you look in some of the brew forums for the right way to wire it. It isn't plug and play like the heat mat controller.

[ThrownOlive]

Wow. Thanks for posting those links Pamulli! I bought a "fermwrap" from my HBS for $45, which is just the 11" heat tape you posted and in the link, it's $4.25/ft. Good news? My lab puppy recently decided chewing the fermwrap was a good plan, so I'm in the market for a new fermenter heater!

[Pamulli]

Wow. Thanks for posting those links Pamulli! I bought a "fermwrap" from my HBS for $45, which is just the 11" heat tape you posted and in the link, it's $4.25/ft. Good news? My lab puppy recently decided chewing the fermwrap was a good plan, so I'm in the market for a new fermenter heater!

Yea some of the HBS's sell heating products that appear to be the same flex watt heat tape. I looked at those before I found a mention of the DIY version in a brew forum somewhere.

[midcarolina]

You can go as low tech or hi tech as you wish............. If you want to ferment in your garage but you have a concern of keeping it hidden just pick up a used non working chest freezer..... use the freezer as your insulated box, add a light bulb and a cheap line voltage heating thermostat and your in business........ and no one is the wiser, just looks like a freezer in the garage............

[Clearwater]

Thanks, John! Think I'll buy 2.One for recirculating water and another to ferment

[Clearwater]

Though, in looking in the measurements for the 13 gallon, I see:

20" tall x 50" Gird x

7 ponds

What the hell is "Gird"? Could he mean 50 square inches and be saying "Grid"?